Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

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Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby thefonz003 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:17 am

In the video linked on the VSE page for the Motif, there is, around 35 seconds in, a funky-sounding electric piano patch. It sounds kind of like a Fender Rhodes with a bit of a "wah" effect---almost like a fast filter sweep, but not quite. I've been told it's called "Sweetness." At any rate, I'm wondering if any other synths have similar patches. My SY77 EP patches don't sound like that, not the presets or anything on the many floppy disks I've purchased online. Most of them sound closer to the "DXano" sound---not surprising since both the SY77 and the DX line use FM synthesis (AFM in the SY77, but a variation on the same theme).

So, anyone have similar patches on their synths? Can said patches be heard on a video or mp3? Would a similar sound be possible on the SY77? Thanks in advance for any answers!

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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby meatballfulton » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:53 am

I own the Motif ES. I think the factory e-piano patches are great, one reason I bought it.

They use samples (in ROM) so I'm afraid the only way to get similar sounds from another synth would be to have similar e-piano samples to start with.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby thefonz003 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:09 am

Right, but couldn't part of it be related to the filters?
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby b3groover » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:01 am

No. It's because the samples are really good in the ES. Even better in the XS. And even better in the XF. Yamaha finally got around to making good, non-DX7 electric piano sounds starting with the Motif series.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby meatballfulton » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:06 pm

In modern ROMplers, emulative patches use filters a lot less than in the old days because the samples are longer.

There's less need to use the filter and amp to shape the attack and sustain portions of the sound. Plus there is probably some velocity switching going on as well.

A good example is the TB-303 patches in the ES. I was surprised how closely they nailed the resonance of the Roland filters only to discover that most of the resonance was in the raw samples!
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby thefonz003 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:48 pm

So do any Motif competitors (e.g., Korg Triton, etc.) have similar-sounding patches?
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby b3groover » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:34 pm

Not really, imo, unless you shell out a bunch for the Korg SV-1. If I were you, I'd pick up a used Motif Classic or ES (either keyboard or rackmount). They both use the same samples, but the ES has more plus the MIDI timing is improved.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby Zamise » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:09 am

The RS7000 has the AWM2 pianos, but its voices aren't megavoices, just a single voice per track, and the vari effect is always defaulted off, and of course it don't have a pressure sensitive keybed, however it can probably come close with one of its pianos, strings, or guitars while using a wah type effect on it. Just throwing that out there, cause I compare everything to my RS.

I think the main characteristic, the funkyness, is from a wah or similar effect that can be edited independent of the main LFO and filters. Also, the CS2X and or CS6X might have something similar on them, but I'm not sure, they have AWM2s in them too with megavoice ability, but the rest of the engine might be too difrent to produce something exactly like it, but I imagine can probably come pretty close to it. Its mostly in the effects for that sound I think, which does sound like a type of wah. From what I understand, the biggest dif on that motif from the rest of the AWM2 based synths is that it looks like you can insert up to 6 effects on top of each voice/track, correct? A lot of sonic character could be comming from stacking effects, and not just the sampled waveforms or the subtractive part of its synth engine.

Good practice I think is to sample in the resonance from a source, so resonance doesn't have to be added so much as it can more easily be removed in the subtractive part of the synth's engine on them. I've often noticed the same thing on my RS, especially with the more FMy labeled voices, turning the decay up can really open up the sound. Maybe that is a Yamaha thing, and why folks tend to think Yamahas are more bland sounding, Yamaha seems to like to keep their default voice settings fairly neutral and dry, which for me invites them to be tweaked rather than spending an hour to scroll through all the voices just to find a slightly different or better one.

Also, I'm not so sure about the sample length always equating to sound quality and realism, some yamahas and I presume most if not all the motifs have the higher bit depth output D/A converters, so the AWM2 samples should sound crisper coming out on them then ones with lower bit depth output. And don't forget layering, which helps to have those megavoices.

If you are really in to piano sounds, you might also want to check out any of Yamaha's synths that can accept the PLG cards, they have one or more specifically for doing pianos.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby thefonz003 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:00 pm

So, two questions:

1. If I were to get a Motif ESR (rackmount), would it have the same patches as the ES keyboard version? Would it still have the sampler and the arpeggiator (two key features for me)? And...
2. How corny would it be to drive the rackmount through the keyboard of my SY77? Would I be losing anything using such an old keyboard? MIDI is MIDI, right?
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby b3groover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:08 pm

1. Yes, the ES rack has the same sounds as the ES keyboard. There's no sampling option in any of the Motif racks, which is a drag.

2. I drive my ES rack from my SY77 all the time. Works fine.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby thefonz003 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:33 pm

Thanks, b3groover. So I'd have to buy a sampler as well...darn. Guess I should find a way to save up a thou or more and get the keyboard version...without parting with my SY77 (I've read the Motif doesn't do "synthy" sounds that well, and I love the versatility of the SY77).
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby b3groover » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:53 pm

I would definitely not sell the SY77 to get a Motif, but the two would compliment each other well.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby meatballfulton » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:56 pm

thefonz003 wrote:I've read the Motif doesn't do "synthy" sounds that well


That's mostly BS. I own an ES and use it for synth sounds, EPs, organs and drums. Like most sample-based synths, it lacks the usual analog oscillator mod tricks like ring mod, hard sync, FM/crossmod but it contains some samples of those types of modulated waves in the factory ROM.

You should listen to the demo mp3s available at Easysounds for the ES Rack. The Phat Analog (for vintage sounds) and Synth Xtremes (for more modern stuff) libraries might surprise you.
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Re: Yamaha Motif ES Electric Piano Patch

Postby b3groover » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:52 am

I agree that the Motif can do "synthy" sounds quite well, including some very nice pads and leads. However, it doesn't replace a synth like the SY77. If there's any way to keep the SY77 and get a Motif, too, that's what I'd do. In fact, I'm slowly saving up for a Motif XF. That's my next synth, for sure.
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