Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.

Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby minime123 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:42 pm

just contributed this to a thread on another forum and thought it might be helpful to cross-post here in case anyone searched for info on rev2 machines in the future:

when we restore our vintage analog instruments, we basically try to get them to behave/tune as close to new digital instruments as possible.
we've come to the conclusion that we simply cannot get some prophet 5 rev 2's to perform up to our high standards.
we dont work on rev 2 machines too often. if i recall correctly, we noticed in the last couple we fully serviced that there was scaling trouble in the high range of one of the oscillators in one of the voices - i think it was the one furthest from the tuning circuit - same voice #, same oscillator #. so, even after servicing and proper calibration, when playing high notes, the instrument would sound slightly detuned at times when that voice was being activated. we discussed this with david at WCS, and he pretty much said this is why sequential circuits made the rev 3, which makes sense. i think we invested something insane like 90 hours into the last rev 2 that we sold, and probably half that time was trying (unsuccessfully) to resolve that issue. facepalm.

mini
VINTAGE SYNTH DEALER
- We Buy Sell Trade Repair Vintage Synths
- We Buy Broken Gear & Parts Too...
- Huge Selection, Dependable Service
- https://tonetweakers.com
User avatar
minime123
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby yorgatron » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:33 pm

does that mean I can pick one up for cheap now?

:lol:
User avatar
yorgatron
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:57 pm
Gear: ARP Axxe
ARP Omni I
Korg Poly-61
Korg MS-10
Korg Mini-Korg 700
Elka X-55
RMI 300A
Wurlitzer 206A
Hohner Clavinet/Pianet Duo
Casio XW-P1
Band: Asha-Med

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby Alex E » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:23 am

Slightly OT, but I swear I remember some guy here basically telling me that the only "real" P5's are Rev. 2's. :lol: Christ...
soundcloud.com/vectron

User avatar
Alex E
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:07 am
Location: Anaheim, CA
Gear: CS6x, EX5r, Supernova II, Indigo II, Nord Lead 2x M1r, TX802, Live 9, iMac MC309XX/A

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby Big Gnome » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:06 am

yorgatron wrote:does that mean I can pick one up for cheap now?

:lol:

h**l no. That's what makes them so much fatter, warmer, so much more...analoguish than the ersatz rev3's. It's just common sense.
"Sure that's fine in practice, but what about in theory?"
Some of my c**p
User avatar
Big Gnome
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:14 am
Location: Oakland, CA
Gear: E-mu Proteus 2500
Ensoniq ESQ-1
Ensoniq VFX
SCI Prelude
Waldorf Blofeld
Band: The Nondescript

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby sam » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:18 am

its common sense to realise that a rev 2 prophet will give more problems than a rev 3.

trying to get a rev 2 digi tuned is a fruitless idea....the slight detuning adds to the sound.
Lam memorymoog.Sonic six.Vp330 mk1.SH101.OSCar.ARP odyssey..multivox mx3000.Solina stringsynth.polivox
ms20/50.Andromeda. OBX.
Prophet 5 Pro-one. Wasp.EMS AKS.
sam
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1298
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby ppg_wavecomputer » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:46 am

sam wrote:its common sense to realise that a rev 2 prophet will give more problems than a rev 3. [...]


I for one am perfectly satisfied with the problems a regular Rev. 3.3 gives me.

Stephen
"Like the light from distant stars, Stephen Parsick's music has existed for some time, but is only now reaching us on Earth." -- Chuck van Zyl / Star´s End

https://ramp1.bandcamp.com/

https://stephenparsick.bandcamp.com/
User avatar
ppg_wavecomputer
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:37 pm
Location: teutoburg forest, eastern westphalia, germany
Gear: more keys than hands (and feet)
Band: ['ramp]

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby sam » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:27 am

i am very happy with my rev 3.....it has broken down on me a few times but in general its a stable synth.
Lam memorymoog.Sonic six.Vp330 mk1.SH101.OSCar.ARP odyssey..multivox mx3000.Solina stringsynth.polivox
ms20/50.Andromeda. OBX.
Prophet 5 Pro-one. Wasp.EMS AKS.
sam
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1298
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby celebutante » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:04 am

I too am happy with the level of grief happiness my rev 3.2 gives me.

I played a rev 2 and a rev 3 last weekend - they were on top of each other, so I matched sounds, went back and forth, etc. The filter certainly is a little different, and the rev2 oscillators had a wee bit more "warble" in the way they detuned against one another, but IMO, the good 'ol internet has spent way too much blowing this argument WAY out of proportion... they're a little different, but not much, and honestly, I wouldn't even say one was much "better" than the other.

(I should also qualify this by stating that I'm a pretty serious analog synth tone snob/junkie!)
synthesizers.com modular • Sequential Prophet-5 • Roland Jupiter-4 • Korg Delta • Oberheim SEM • Ensoniq SQ-80 • Korg MS-20 • Moog Minimoog • Yamaha CS-15 • Cordovox/Moog "White Elephant"

http://www.mitchellsigman.com
http://www.celebusite.com
User avatar
celebutante
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:57 am
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby Hybrid88 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:29 am

So in conclusion, instead of paying more for a Rev 2, get a Rev 3 and detune it. :D
User avatar
Hybrid88
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:26 am
Location: Australia
Gear: V-Synth, and other stuff...

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby ppg_wavecomputer » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:36 am

Hybrid88 wrote:So in conclusion, instead of paying more for a Rev 2, get a Rev 3 and detune it. :D


It tends to detune itself, more like it.

I find myself hitting the Autotune key every 30 or so minutes, and most definitely before every recording take.

celebutante wrote: [...] the good 'ol internet has spent way too much blowing this argument WAY out of proportion... they're a little different, but not much, and honestly, I wouldn't even say one was much "better" than the other. [...]


Had the same experience with a Rev. 1 and a Rev. 3.3 side by side, and the slight timbral difference couldn't and wouldn't justify the hassle inherent to SSMs and early revisions. Let alone the price tag...

Stephen
"Like the light from distant stars, Stephen Parsick's music has existed for some time, but is only now reaching us on Earth." -- Chuck van Zyl / Star´s End

https://ramp1.bandcamp.com/

https://stephenparsick.bandcamp.com/
User avatar
ppg_wavecomputer
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:37 pm
Location: teutoburg forest, eastern westphalia, germany
Gear: more keys than hands (and feet)
Band: ['ramp]

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby Peopleunderthesun » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:56 pm

My rev 3.3 tends to drift quite well and doesnt exhibit any of the "thinness" people claim. It sounds gigantic and I dont hear (that) much of a difference between revisions, just more pain and suffering for the owner. Factory midi and a million patches is amazing too. I tend to completely lose my mind when I have a synth with serious tuning problems.
User avatar
Peopleunderthesun
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:16 am
Location: Hollywood, California
Gear: Minimoog, Polymoog, Prophet 5, Composer, Multiman, Jx10 with Vecoven modifications, D50, Emax II HD, Dx7 MkI Supermax, MPC 5000
Band: People Under The Sun

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby minime123 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:17 am

"trying to get a rev 2 digi tuned is a fruitless idea....the slight detuning adds to the sound."


no. a slight detuning of just one voice in the high range of the keyboard does not "add" to the sound.
VINTAGE SYNTH DEALER
- We Buy Sell Trade Repair Vintage Synths
- We Buy Broken Gear & Parts Too...
- Huge Selection, Dependable Service
- https://tonetweakers.com
User avatar
minime123
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: USA

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby Bitexion » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:57 am

Nothing sucks more than trying to record a long lead part or section with a synth that constantly detunes itself.
Or having to press "autotune" every 10 minutes so the sound you've made doesn't change character.

It goes beyond "impressing your mates with the fat detuned soundz" then. You just want the f**** thing to stay in tune long enough to get your work done.

People seem to be of the misconception that the more detune the better. No.
I've recorded with ancient synths, and it's a pain in the a*s when every 5th note is suddenly detuned more than the other notes while you play. Shucks, gotta retune and do it over again. That's not charming at all. Just annoying.
User avatar
Bitexion
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 4198
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: Drammen, Norway
Gear: Alesis Andromeda A6
Roland D-50
Creamware Minimax
Yamaha DX7s
Analogue Systems modular
Ensoniq SQ-80
Waldorf Blofeld

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby sam » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:25 am

minime123 wrote:"trying to get a rev 2 digi tuned is a fruitless idea....the slight detuning adds to the sound."


no. a slight detuning of just one voice in the high range of the keyboard does not "add" to the sound.


you mentioned digital accuracy....tuning is all about balance and if a voice sounds a lttle off you can always tweak it.

as a synth tech i always tune the synth to be intune for making music...my point was that slight differnces adds to the overall sound.

you understand that now...?
Lam memorymoog.Sonic six.Vp330 mk1.SH101.OSCar.ARP odyssey..multivox mx3000.Solina stringsynth.polivox
ms20/50.Andromeda. OBX.
Prophet 5 Pro-one. Wasp.EMS AKS.
sam
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1298
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:09 pm
Location: Europe

Re: Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 rev 2 expectations

Postby minime123 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:46 pm

sam wrote:
minime123 wrote:"trying to get a rev 2 digi tuned is a fruitless idea....the slight detuning adds to the sound."


no. a slight detuning of just one voice in the high range of the keyboard does not "add" to the sound.


you mentioned digital accuracy....tuning is all about balance and if a voice sounds a lttle off you can always tweak it.

as a synth tech i always tune the synth to be intune for making music...my point was that slight differnces adds to the overall sound.

you understand that now...?


im not talking about analog inaccuracy here. that is fine and adds to character. despite our efforts to make all our analog machines tune like they are digital, this will never be 100% possible because analog components drift over time / due to how long they've been on / environmental factors, etc. what im talking about specifically here with rev 2s is what appears to be a design flaw that makes one oscillator of one voice, even in a properly calibrated machine, go out of tune in the high range of the keyboard. not just a minor drift that makes it sound analog, but a more significant difference that makes me want to throw the thing out the window after paying our tech to work on it for 90 hours. we have another rev 2 but based on the huge investment the last couple required without even achieving the results we strive to achieve, im hesitant to restore it (or buy others) at this point.
mini
VINTAGE SYNTH DEALER
- We Buy Sell Trade Repair Vintage Synths
- We Buy Broken Gear & Parts Too...
- Huge Selection, Dependable Service
- https://tonetweakers.com
User avatar
minime123
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: USA

Next

Return to General Synthesizers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests