Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software?

For computer based music makers. Discussions about plug-ins and stand alone computer synth gear.

How do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software?

Poll ended at Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:56 am

It hurts the software developers and deprives them of hard earned cash. so, NO. I purchase it legitimately.
17
61%
FREE SOFTWARE!?!?! I'm IN!
1
4%
I don't like pirating things, but I do because I simply don't realistically have the money to purchase software.
1
4%
I do like pirating software, as it is wayyy overpriced and putting a price on self-expression is morally wrong.
0
No votes
I don't use software period, I'M OLD SKOOL!
1
4%
I use freeware.
0
No votes
I do like pirating software because it gives me a chance to fully evaluate it before deciding whether or not to purchase it
8
29%
 
Total votes : 28

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby seamonkey » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:44 pm

I discovered software around 04 when I joined KvR, and my first software synth other than some of the free vst's available over there was Steinberg's Model E.(love it and still have it and even uploaded a bank of sounds I'd created).
I think at the time it was quite expensive, $199.00.
In the early days, developers hadn't figured out how to stop illegal copying of it's products so it was pretty difficult to return it or get a license to resell it.
Part of the excuse and debate on getting stuff free was for that very reason.

But these days it's a lot easier to transfer the license on software synths, daw's, etc, so it's really not an excuse anymore.

It's a moral issue that each person has to decide for themselves, I can only offer my opinion.

As a musician and songwriter I've never downloaded a song for free, unless it was offered as such by the band, group, artist, etc.
I have made cassettes or burned cd's for friends after I've purchased the album. However, I only do that if the individual has never heard of the group and I think they'd like the music, and hopeful they like it enough to buy from the past catalog and future albums.
Moog Voyager Roland D50 Ensoniq VFX-SD, Korg Wavestation Emulator II, Emax SE Plus, Korg King Korg, Minibrute, Takamine Acoustic Peavey Falcon electric
User avatar
seamonkey
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: michigan
Real name: Rick

Advertisement:

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby griffin avid » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:13 pm

NI has it best with fully working software that quits after 1/2 hour. I dislike tones or beeps and 30 day trials that leave data behind, buried in your registry. I didn't see a good choice for against piracy, but "would buy more if the prices were lower". I can dig the higher prices on some large footprint software, but sometimes it's a little bugged to see an 1.2 Mb VST cost $250. I keep thinking about the dollar per line of code ratio.

Sometimes I wonder if they realize prices based on who they think *should* be using the apps.
XYZ group has this much money so we can charge this much.

Sometimes it doesn't make sense.
If you buy a hardware DVD burner for $100, you get the software for free.
If you try and buy DVD-burning software, all by itself, it's $150.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com
User avatar
griffin avid
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby ninja6485 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:19 am

There are aspects of Pirating that are questionable. For companies, the fact that the choice of whether their product is free or not is taken out of their hands. Conversely, no one bats an eye when use/ownership of something they paid for is undermined by a non-negotiable, purposefully vague and longwinded contract; effectively placed so that it puts you in a bad situation if you should choose to disagree. It's like waiting in line for an hour and a half to get onto a roller coaster, only to find out that there is an additional charge when you get to the front of the line, and being told that the information was clearly written in plain sight on a little plaque on the side of the parking block in space d6 of lot E, and that a smart consumer would have checked their first before waiting in line. But I digress...

On the other hand, there are aspects where the free exchange of software is a good shoe in for potential customers: a fact NI is not unaware of in hiring some of their sound design crew who famously cut their teeth on pirated gear. Little Johnny doesn't know if making music is really his thing. So, he pirates FM7 in the early 2000s. Now Johnny has some cash, acquired a preference for NI from his pirating days, and picks up Komplete at his local Sam Ash. FM7 is old news at this point, and NI had a shoe in over Arturia since Arturia missed their opportunity to compete with Ni to instill brand loyalty in Johnny before he was ready to make a financial commitment to his hobby. Obviously for Ni, it would be ideal for them if they had complete control over what Jonny had access to - if they could have the control AND achieve the same end. That however, has not been a reality with limited demos, but I DO think something like this is what Ni are trying to do by doing things like giving away Massive for free to Maschine owners (how I happened to acquire it).


An additional note, what's going to happen when all of the 2000s era software no longer runs on the latest operating systems, and is no longer relevant or competitive? Like in 10 years, should one still feel shamed out of using a cracked version of Absynth 2?
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...
User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Exton/ westchester
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, esi4k,M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby cartesia » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:00 am

It kinda depends... I think there are so many different ways to approach this issue, as a company and a user.

I like what cycling 74 do with max, 30 day un-limited trial. but that's also annoying. I like the whole 'live lite' thing. That's great.

I think it's fine to try something before you buy it, but really, when you look at how much money most people have to spend on their hobbies, a few hundred is not alot to ask for such a powerful piece of software.

I think it's interesting that music software has maintained a relatively competitive & varied market, whereas with, for example, graphics - it's all about adobe. game set and match.
cartesia
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:55 am
Gear: Octatrack
Bass Station 2
Band: TBA

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby seamonkey » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:31 pm

My apologies to the original poster(moodorf) for straying from the question about DAW's into pirated/cracked vst's.
Moog Voyager Roland D50 Ensoniq VFX-SD, Korg Wavestation Emulator II, Emax SE Plus, Korg King Korg, Minibrute, Takamine Acoustic Peavey Falcon electric
User avatar
seamonkey
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: michigan
Real name: Rick

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby pmh » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:02 pm

My laptop currently has both bought and legitimate free software on it, and I would not accept anything that had been hacked.

I am also a believer in paying people for the efforts they put in, and see no reason why software developers shouldn't get just reward for their efforts. After all, we wouldn't expect a plumber to fix a leak for free.

There are, however, some organisations that spread a reliance on their products, Microsoft comes to mind here, and then charge an over inflated amount for users to keep up to date.

I also believe that some new releases/upgrades are unnecessary and just a further money making venture. Same company comes to mind for this.

If companies offer a good product at a reasonable rate, then they will have a better success rate when it comes to the number of legitimate copies in circulation. However, there are always those who want it for free, regardless.

In my experience, it is usually the people who can comfortably afford to pay who are the worst offenders.

As mentioned, free trials are very useful, as they allow you to evaluate the product before purchase. Offering a discounted upgrade for existing users is always good to see.

The increase of broadband speeds has also made it possible to do a direct download. Not only does this cut down on production costs, making a product cheaper (in theory) but it opens up the market globally and removes wait time for the item to be posted.

Kind regards,



Phil
User avatar
pmh
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:51 pm
Location: Bury, Lancashire, England.
Real name: Phil

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby Hybrid88 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:28 pm

_dan wrote:I like the profit sharing scheme. On top of an accessible flat rate, the software developer should earn based upon the income that the product yields, (e.g. media royalties). I don't steal software because I can afford to buy what I need, but there is plenty of MOR software with absurd costs. Also, it's annoying when vendors implement anti-piracy measures that really only penalize the people who actually by the software (e.g. ilok or mobile apps requiring network connectivity to continuously authenticate during product use).

+1000

Also it's a well known fact that the vast majority of people who pirate stuff are willing to buy if the price is considered fair. Sure piracy sucks, but so does corporate greed :evil:
User avatar
Hybrid88
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:26 am
Location: Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
Gear: V-Synth, and other stuff.

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby seamonkey » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:23 pm

Hybrid88 wrote:
_dan wrote:I like the profit sharing scheme. On top of an accessible flat rate, the software developer should earn based upon the income that the product yields, (e.g. media royalties). I don't steal software because I can afford to buy what I need, but there is plenty of MOR software with absurd costs. Also, it's annoying when vendors implement anti-piracy measures that really only penalize the people who actually by the software (e.g. ilok or mobile apps requiring network connectivity to continuously authenticate during product use).

+1000

Also it's a well known fact that the vast majority of people who pirate stuff are willing to buy if the price is considered fair. Sure piracy sucks, but so does corporate greed :evil:


well, those annoying iloks, etc are there because of people downloading them for free. Direct you anger at them, not at the companies who have to invest their time and money into creating them.

I believe people will steal this stuff regardless of price, they may say if it was cheaper I'd pay for it, but I think not. I think they say that for public consumption. Besides "fair price" is arbitrary, how do decide what that is?
Let's say I walk into a restaurant and order a hamburger, French fires and a large drink, but following my meal, I get up and walk out without paying. When asked why, I reply McDonald's is a greedy corporation and I didn't think the price for my meal was fair.
Can we apply this rule to all things in life, or is it just when stealing software?

I wanted to upgrade to Cubase 6, it was $499. Do I think that's more than I WANTED to pay, yes, but it's a great DAW and I've always used Cubase. So, I sold some stuff and was able to pay cash for it. You can get Cubase Lite, or whatever it's called thrown in when you buy something these days, and from I've heard it does a good job.
Plus there are other companies making great DAW software at a 1/3 of the cost of the big boys.

I have just as much contempt for corporate greed as anyone, but in order for Cakewalk, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc to continue to improve their product they need the revenue from people PAYING for their product.
Moog Voyager Roland D50 Ensoniq VFX-SD, Korg Wavestation Emulator II, Emax SE Plus, Korg King Korg, Minibrute, Takamine Acoustic Peavey Falcon electric
User avatar
seamonkey
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: michigan
Real name: Rick

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby griffin avid » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:04 pm

Also it's a well known fact that the vast majority of people who pirate stuff are willing to buy if the price is considered fair.

I've ended so many arguments with people about this kind of stuff. I just wish we'd all admit it's a philosophical stance and not any part of it is rooted in logic or reason or economics. (no pun intended)

I've heard people say NI Kontakt is like 1,000 bucks or WAVES is a ton of money.
And I say Go ahead and use the cracks, but buy the cheapest product they offer that matches what YOU think that bundle is worth. The guy using the FULL SUITE will not spend $100 bucks on a single plug in from that company.

That's why I say it's NEVER been about money.
Think albums are too costly? Download the whole friggin album for FREE and buy a single....
C'mon, you can show that much support.....

The fact that no one ever does this shows that it's tied to the IDEA of getting stuffs for free and all the BS about 'piracy is a +' or justifications is stuff that sounds good.

--------------------------------------

A crippling factor that bothers me is that software is barely re-sellable. I think it could and should be bought back (by the developer, if necessary) and sold again at discount. Want the upgrade for Cubase? Turn in the ORIGINAL install disk for a minimal upgrade price. Allow stores to have a used software section and I bet a lot of software would be viable long after the born-on date.

An older copy of XYZ software was fully capable back when it came out. It should really hold its value.
Maybe DAWS are problematic with the OS-specific updates, but VSTs don't really need a license system.
Save the dongles and such for DAWs.

Someone who wants to edit their baby pictures shouldn't have to use the free crappy crap that came with their computers bundle, they should be able to use an OLD copy of Photoshop. They could get it right from Adobe and the only fiddlings is OS compatibility. That cost surely offset by a host of new, legitimate customers.

The reason I stand by this is I've bought old software in clearance bins. Seeing something you know is still good at such a reduced price would be tempting to many. I'm sure everyone has some old software that's been uninstalled sitting around. Imagine if it was easy and safe to sell.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com
User avatar
griffin avid
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby seamonkey » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:49 pm

I agree with a lot of what you say, but disagree about it also being a philosophical argument.
I don't want to beat this thread into the ground, so I probably won't comment any more.

A product is developed, labor and expense is used to develop it. It's put up for sale $xxx.00.
Musician A gets out their credit card, or goes to guitar center and pays for it.
Musican B finds a copy on line that's cracked and downloads it for free.
A paid for it, B stole it, the same way as if you went into the Cakewalk offices, grabbed a boxed copy and run off with it.

There is nothing philosophical about it, if you take something you didn't pay for, it's stealing, clear and simple.
But somehow, we can't connect the dots because it's all an invisible transaction. The internet makes everything invisible, no brick and mortar where you have to actually go into the store and get a copy.
Lines are blurred much easier because of this.
Moog Voyager Roland D50 Ensoniq VFX-SD, Korg Wavestation Emulator II, Emax SE Plus, Korg King Korg, Minibrute, Takamine Acoustic Peavey Falcon electric
User avatar
seamonkey
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm
Location: michigan
Real name: Rick

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby pmh » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:54 pm

All valid points, and no right or wrong answers really.

Realistically, costs should reduce, but they don't. After all, I am sure they don't have to rewrite the entire software for each new release.

Once the main bulk of the software has been written I would have thought it was easier to make tweaks regarding operating system changes, new features, etc, but version 5 seems to be the same, if not more, than version 1.

Not exactly the same, I know, but we now pay a lot less for DVD players, etc, than when they first came out.

Kind regards,



Phil
User avatar
pmh
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:51 pm
Location: Bury, Lancashire, England.
Real name: Phil

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby Nistegmos » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:02 pm

I TOTALLY agree with Griffin Avid. I wish they'd let us resell and rebuy old softwares. I read somewhere that old softwares are recalled from distributors and DESTROYED on commands by the manufacturers. This is supposedly because they don't want to have to compete with their own old softwares. C'mon guys, what about improvements?
User avatar
Nistegmos
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:01 pm
Gear: Alesis M1 Active 320 USB Monitors/Interface; Alesis Q49 USB MIDI Controller; Reaper; FL Studio; Harmor; Vember Surge; Toxic Biohazard; freewares.
Band: Nystagmus

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby sequentialsoftshock » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:35 pm

silikon wrote:Most software developers allow a demo download for you to try for a period of time. Furthermore, I don't trust a piece of cracked software enough to take the risk of bringing in some awful electronic equivalent of the clap; lastly, a good potion of the software I use comes from small developers whom definitely live and breathe this industry and it doesn't fit into my personal moral guidelines to essentially deprive them of some small income.

People like Urs Heckmann (U-He), Chris Randall (Audio Damage), Randy Jones (Madrona Labs), Christiane and Harry Gohs (Virsyn), and plenty of others I haven't mentioned make their living off the licensing of the software they create.

If I can't afford it, I won't pirate it. There are open-source, or outright free things out there one could use if they don't want to lay out cash on a license.


And U He also releases several good pieces of free software.
bonne chance
User avatar
sequentialsoftshock
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 2383
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Paris / Philadelphia
Real name: Zayne
Gear: Pro~One, MS20, MPC60, Aalto, Volca Beats, Volca Keys, Beatstep, Casio MT18, BitOne (sorta), Circle, Orbit 3, K5, Stylos, Univox Hi Flier, iPad
Band: Echo & Liora

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby bluntedcircuit » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:32 am

I pirated when I was a teen, it was a good way to learn a program and learn what you want out of music software but ultimately shit was buggy and would crash all the time, probably led to the demise of a few computers.

Now I own everything I use - the stability alone is worth it; but that being said I don't know if I ever would have bought the full version if I hadn't been able to use that pirate version for years. I recently installed a demo of reason and I think they have the right idea with how the only limitation is saving.
bluntedcircuit
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:34 am
Location: chicago
Real name: diaz
Gear: machinedrum, mpc1000, blofeld, maschine, kp3, esq1, ms20, ableton

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby meatballfulton » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:16 pm

Nistegmos wrote:I read somewhere that old softwares are recalled from distributors and DESTROYED on commands by the manufacturers. This is supposedly because they don't want to have to compete with their own old softwares.


This is pretty common across the entire software industry, not just music software. New rev hits the street, the old rev becomes unavailable immediately.

Then there's support issues. When I contacted NI about loading problems with some Kore packs I owned they wouldn't help because Kore was a dead product and my computer's OS was newer than what existed when I bought them. That led to my decision to never again buy anything from NI.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.
User avatar
meatballfulton
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 3703
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 pm
Gear: Motif XF6, Evolver, Live 9

PreviousNext

Return to Software Synthesizers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests