Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software?

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How do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software?

Poll ended at Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:56 am

It hurts the software developers and deprives them of hard earned cash. so, NO. I purchase it legitimately.
17
61%
FREE SOFTWARE!?!?! I'm IN!
1
4%
I don't like pirating things, but I do because I simply don't realistically have the money to purchase software.
1
4%
I do like pirating software, as it is wayyy overpriced and putting a price on self-expression is morally wrong.
0
No votes
I don't use software period, I'M OLD SKOOL!
1
4%
I use freeware.
0
No votes
I do like pirating software because it gives me a chance to fully evaluate it before deciding whether or not to purchase it
8
29%
 
Total votes : 28

Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby skunk3 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:21 pm

Kinda funny how at one point in time I had a pirated copy of damn near every bit of software that was available at the time, yet today I am 99% hardware-based. Most of the time when I do record, it's straight to tape. I guess that having access to all of that software for free kinda ruined its value for me. All software did for me was reinforce the fact that software isn't for me.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby sequentialsoftshock » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:21 am

skunk3 wrote:. I guess that having access to all of that software for free kinda ruined its value for me.


This is a very good point that has been made on articles discouraging people, especially those new to the game, because it doesn't really expand your knowledge of working only with the tools that you are given. Being limited to only what you can afford really helps you explore every bit of it and how to utilize it in the way you need.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby ninja6485 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:56 am

In some ways, yes, but then you have something like NI Komplete, which shoves practically every tool they make right in your face all at once. There's also the problem that people begin with varying resources. Being limited to what you can afford can mean very different things depending on how much you have to spend! So it can be hard to trace the root of the 'have too much, need limits' problem to the pirating itself. Really, it's a problem with the individual's fractured attention. Even hardware people aren't free from this problem. How many times do we see people in threads talking about how they weren't productive with the room full of gear that they collected, but then they scaled it back to one or two items, and now they're cranking out tunes? 8-) Hardware, software, sample libraries. It happens with them all. Balma probably has this problem with porn samples... :wink2: :empathy: :drinks:
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby Jaytee » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:30 am

I tend toward being anti-piracy with regards to DAWs. There are just so many free and low-cost recording solutions out there that I can't really see any justification for stealing the expensive stuff.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby CS_TBL » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:47 am

Jaytee wrote:I tend toward being anti-piracy with regards to DAWs. There are just so many free and low-cost recording solutions out there that I can't really see any justification for stealing the expensive stuff.


I would think the Steinbergs of this world would rather want you to use a cracked Cubase than a random freeware DAW. Because with a cracked Cubase, you'll grow to like it, making the chance bigger that you'll eventually want to buy it.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby meatballfulton » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:31 pm

Steinberg is just plain weird...you need a dongle just to run the Cubase demo (they suggest borrowing one from your local dealer!) :---)

Meanwhile, the Reaper "demo" runs forever with nothing more than a nag screen if you don't buy =D>
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby CS_TBL » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:16 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Steinberg is just plain weird...you need a dongle just to run the Cubase demo (they suggest borrowing one from your local dealer!) :---)


Afaik there's a light version which works for a limited time, only requiring an email-address (or iirc a Steinberg account, more specifically). I know, because Steinberg visited the shop I work for (demo/workshop) and handed out free CD's with some testversion of Cubase (and pens 'n mouse pads for that matter). In theory, if you have multiple CD's, you could install it multiple times, only requiring a new emai -account.

Anyway, I'd forget about test versions anyway. This is how the world works today: you use a cracked version to see how it works, and if you like it (and/or like the company), you'll buy it eventually. Probably not quite according to the book, but then again.. what is?
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby Jaytee » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:15 pm

CS_TBL wrote:
Jaytee wrote:I tend toward being anti-piracy with regards to DAWs. There are just so many free and low-cost recording solutions out there that I can't really see any justification for stealing the expensive stuff.


I would think the Steinbergs of this world would rather want you to use a cracked Cubase than a random freeware DAW. Because with a cracked Cubase, you'll grow to like it, making the chance bigger that you'll eventually want to buy it.


If that were the case, why wouldn't they just release an official freeware version of their software for the sake of garnering userbase?
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby meatballfulton » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:41 pm

Jaytee wrote:If that were the case, why wouldn't they just release an official freeware version of their software for the sake of garnering userbase?


Cubase LE and Cubase AI are often bundled with hardware, as is Ableton Live Lite. I guess the reason they don't give these away outright is that Cubase LE and AI are pretty much identical to Cubase Essentials ($100) and Live Lite is pretty much identical to Live Intro (also $100).

There are free downloadable versions of Acid and Studio One, though.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby ninja6485 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:10 pm

I have like 3 or 4 of those disks hanging around. I prefer Cubase AI since it integrates with my N8. It seems like the audio world rains entry level DAWs. I bought a pair of shoes and it came with Cubase LE...

CS_TBL wrote:
Jaytee wrote:I tend toward being anti-piracy with regards to DAWs. There are just so many free and low-cost recording solutions out there that I can't really see any justification for stealing the expensive stuff.


I would think the Steinbergs of this world would rather want you to use a cracked Cubase than a random freeware DAW. Because with a cracked Cubase, you'll grow to like it, making the chance bigger that you'll eventually want to buy it.
This! :agree:
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby Ashe37 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:51 am

ninja6485 wrote:I have like 3 or 4 of those disks hanging around. I prefer Cubase AI since it integrates with my N8. It seems like the audio world rains entry level DAWs. I bought a pair of shoes and it came with Cubase LE...


Quote from a trade show several years ago

"I bought a pack of cigarettes and it came with a copy of Premiere."

this is back when editing with premiere was considered a joke... and even the cheapest video capture hardware came with Premiere (often full copies)
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby meatballfulton » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:22 pm

Yep, I've got a small pile of Cubase AI and Ableton Lite installer discs too.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby mute » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:39 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Yep, I've got a small pile of Cubase AI and Ableton Lite installer discs too.


The modern day music software equivalent of AOL install CDs. I have 15-20 of each laying around from over the past 2-3 years. Magazines, pedals, h/w, s/w... they come with pretty much everything nowadays and often you can even find stacks of them sitting out on the counter @ shops like guitarcenter...esp. Live Lite.
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby calaverasgrande » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:46 pm

I think the case for cracked plugins or DAW software is pretty weak.
If you are a broke student who could just barely get a computer together, well there are freeware equivalents of just about everything. Reaper is not my first choice. But it is free aint it?
There are also slamming good deals out there on various hardware software bundles. Certain interfaces and controllers come with LE versions of DAW software and softsynths. And heck, most of the major players in DAW land have more than enough plugins and softsynths to keep you busy for a long time.
I get it, I was broke as hell for most of my 20's and 30's. It can seem like an insurmountable task to get a home studio together. "how does everyone else do this?".
But stuff has gotten crazy cheap and decent on the hardware side in the last half dozen years.

I'm not going to lie and say I never used cracked software. When I first got in to DAWs I downloaded everything I could. And I had a crashy, unstable recording rig with every plugin known. I recorded a few bands, and once had a very red face after we got an awesome hip hop track recorded in one evening with vocals, bassline, beats etc.
(that was back when I had a minimoog on loan!). My DAW ate the track beats and all and were never able to replicate the same beat.
Since then I've been more spartan in my DAW setup. Making more of a point to get a good sound in the first place. Moving to only using stuff that I pay for. And it is more stable! A side effect of this, is that now that I pay for everything, I am more likely to buy a physical sound making gizmo over a software one. As the physical synths wont be made obsolete as easily as my TC Powercore was!
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Re: Poll: how do you feel about pirated/cracked DAW software

Postby calaverasgrande » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:17 pm

skunk3 wrote:
Solderman wrote:
skunk3 wrote:1. ...There is no profit lost at all aside from a potential sale, but if the person downloading it had no intention ever of buying it to begin with, there's no loss at all...
...I understand that for developers and others expecting to make money from these products, it would be TOTALLY different and quite possibly infuriating, but they should recognize the fact that they peddle in wares (warez, lol) that are EXTREMELY easy to obtain.


These two statements conflict. Unless the software is downloaded and later deleted without installation, distribution or use, there IS profit lost, and you confirmed as such by mentioning the developers. Software sales is not of the data but the license to use it, and that license is how the developer makes a profit. You purchase the privilege to use it without penalty. How that is enforced is what you're counting on being neglected.

skunk3 wrote:2. Stealing, to me, implies that one person is taking something directly from another in a sneaky, underhanded manner. When one downloads pirated software, they aren't hacking servers to get to it or walking out of a store with a box under their coat. They're merely clicking to download something that is freely shared by someone else.


Again, considering you're buying a license for use, you are taking something in an underhanded, sneaky manner if you use it, even once, outside the constraints of the user license agreement. Same goes for the person sharing the data, if the ULA specifies how the data is to be distributed.


I'm as guilty as most for using commercial software without license, and I can rationalize all I want why, but you can't justify semantics of theft simply by saying software cannot be treated the same as tangible merchandise. Being a software developer myself, I'm of the opinion that any software that works without failure and does exactly what you want deserves whatever they are asking for it, at least until something else comes along that can do exactly the same or better for lower cost. If the developer/vendor has moved on to a newer product, or if a number of clearly superior competing products have since been released and are in greater demand, and the developer/vendor still wants the same amount of money to use the older one, I tend to question their motives, but otherwise the ethics seem clear to me.


There is no profit lost if the person obtaining and using the software never intended to purchase it to begin with, either because they didn't have the money to, or had only the barest of interest in it. Devs would be pissed upon hearing about anyone using bootlegs of their software, which is natural. However, I believe (perhaps wrongly) that most of the people who obtain certain bits of software download loads of stuff that they'd *never* purchase if not given the option to obtain bootlegs. This is why I said that there is no profit lost aside from potential sales. If it were not possible to obtain pirated software, sales ostensibly would be up a bit, but not nearly to the point that actually reflects the true user base. Whether or not the value of software lies in the data itself or the license to use it is pragmatically irrelevant here.

Terms of use are a joke, let's be honest. Who actually reads that crap? Maybe when signing up for a credit card or taking out a loan, but certainly not when it comes to installing and using a bit of software. What is or is not "underhanded" or "sneaky" can be debated to death, but rather than focusing on semantics and equivocation, let's just focus on the spirit of the matter. I guess that what I was getting at before is that a more traditional definition of theft implies some sort of daring -- a real sense of risk and a clear sense of potential consequences. That is almost entirely absent when it comes to pirating. Software can NOT be treated the same as tangible merchandise because it is not the same. I understand that from a certain (and IMO - outdated) perspective, it can be argued that it is in fact the same, but I wholeheartedly disagree, especially given the fact that any bit of software can be replicated virtually to infinity. Devs are more than welcome to ask whatever they want for something, and people are more than welcome to pay the asking price, but like I've said numerous times already -- expecting someone to pay for something when they can probably get it for free with virtually no risk whatsoever is just plain silly. Idealistic, even... The moral exemplars and bleeding hearts amongst us will do the 'right thing' and pay, but those of us with looser morals would pirate. This whole situation is like breweries expecting people to pay for beer when anyone could magically summon an identical keg of beer any time they want; a keg that does not come out of the brewer's reserves.

I suppose then it is less about whether you can or can't or shoudl or shouldnt.
Rather, do you like what a particular developer is doing? Do you want them to keep doing it?
Throw money at them.
When I go to see live shows, if there is an out of town band I like I make a point of buying as much of their merch as I can afford. In many cases I can get their entire back catalog from some online site. But I'd rather support that act, and besides it is super cool to have demos of bands after they make it big ("Sausage" anyone?) or a tour shirt from years ago.
Just because it is rougher than ever to make money with making music these days is not license to roll roughshod over every other kind of copyright.
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