Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby madtheory » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:33 pm

That makes no sense. Are you sure he didn't say a Dolby A decoder? Common trick for adding top end, but it doesn't remove noise.

And it's not a filter. dbx works on the dynamic range, not frequency. dbx works by companding, it's not single ended. And the EII already has a companding DAC on the input, and a method of digital compansion for the sampling. What that engineer describes would not work because the audio has to be encoded by dbx first, and even if he did do that it would cause more problems than it solves because the EII is already companding twice.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 3211
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Fabreeze, Buck Owens Moog, Korg Warlock 9000, Roland Sultan of Brunei, Moog Ribald Cat.
Band: madtheory

Advertisement:

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby HideawayStudio » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:19 pm

The EII is no more noisy than anything else from the era - it has a wonderful sound.
H.I.D.E.A.W.A.Y S.T.U.D.I.O
http://www.hideawaystudio.co.uk
The Home of Novachord #346
http://www.novachord.co.uk
User avatar
HideawayStudio
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 1106
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: UK
Real name: Dan Wilson
Gear: 163 tubes in a large wooden box!
Band: Hideaway Studio

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby Erotic Cabaret » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:22 am

Well, it does have a wonderful sound, but I think the key is not using the on-board sample input and, instead, getting all your samples through the COMPUTER INTERFACE on the back. It's a bit of a work-around, though. I'll go with a V-Synth version 2 for now...
"The Jupiter-4 will be tatooed on my heart for ever."
--Phil Oakey
User avatar
Erotic Cabaret
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Portland
Real name: Tyler
Gear: P'08, MoPho, SQ-80, EII+HD, NL3

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby JMP » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:31 am

Every single one of my custom soundbanks has been sampled via the 1/4" jack input from a headphone socket on my PC soundcard interface. Nothing flash there and I've never had any complaints... Tried to sample my old Jupiter 8 into a V Synth Ver 2 and it mangled then all over. :D I didn't find it an easier option.

I'm no tech and can't explain why but sampling some stuff into the EII actually made it sound better to my ears, far punchier at the bottom end for a start. Again, no noticable noise so maybe it's your EII.
JMP
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Gear: EMU Emulator II, ESI 4000, Roland XP30 & JP8000.

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby Erotic Cabaret » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:15 am

I think it must be my EII, John. I tried emailing you about this a while ago I think, haha...

You don't do your sampling through the analog input, though...you do it through the computer interface, don't you? I never got my Mac Classic CD drive to work...
"The Jupiter-4 will be tatooed on my heart for ever."
--Phil Oakey
User avatar
Erotic Cabaret
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Portland
Real name: Tyler
Gear: P'08, MoPho, SQ-80, EII+HD, NL3

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby JMP » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:23 am

Ah right, I'm no good on the tech side sorry. No, all my sampling is through the 1/4" sample input jack. I use the computer interface with Mac & Sound Designer (loading and unloading soundbanks only) but no sampling through it.
JMP
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Gear: EMU Emulator II, ESI 4000, Roland XP30 & JP8000.

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby Stab Frenzy » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:14 am

Is there anyone who actually listened to the example file EC posted and believes it's unacceptably noisy? I think the issue is in the mind of the user rather than the sampler.
User avatar
Stab Frenzy
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 9098
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: monster island*
Gear: Octatrack, Analog Four, Eurorack, Minibrute, Ultranova, many FX

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby madtheory » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:10 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Is there anyone who actually listened to the example file EC posted and believes it's unacceptably noisy? I think the issue is in the mind of the user rather than the sampler.

Agreed. The example posted had only a tiny amount of noise compared to source.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 3211
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Fabreeze, Buck Owens Moog, Korg Warlock 9000, Roland Sultan of Brunei, Moog Ribald Cat.
Band: madtheory

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby JMP » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:31 am

madtheory wrote:
Stab Frenzy wrote:Is there anyone who actually listened to the example file EC posted and believes it's unacceptably noisy? I think the issue is in the mind of the user rather than the sampler.

Agreed. The example posted had only a tiny amount of noise compared to source.


Glad I'm not the only one that thought that...
JMP
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:12 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Gear: EMU Emulator II, ESI 4000, Roland XP30 & JP8000.

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby tekkentool » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:39 pm

+adding noise is good as sometimes. I don't remember a track in recent memory where I've had a saw bass without a little bit of noise mixed in...it's arguably a big load of what makes people think old samplers are so "punchy"
User avatar
tekkentool
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 3317
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:51 am
Location: Sydney, australia.(I moved)
Real name: Steve
Gear: Lasers (ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ ωส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้)
Band: none currently

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby madtheory » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:43 pm

Yes, and it really doesn't help one's creative output to be overly concerned with a little bit of noise. Or distortion of any kind. Just enjoy the EII for what it is- a well designed musical instrument comprising a bunch of pros and cons that might lead you in a certain direction if you view them as boundaries rather than limitations. If it doesn't float your boat try a different tool.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 3211
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Fabreeze, Buck Owens Moog, Korg Warlock 9000, Roland Sultan of Brunei, Moog Ribald Cat.
Band: madtheory

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby Erotic Cabaret » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:32 pm

I'm going over to synthroom's this morning. (Dunno if you guys know him, but he's on this forum and also lives in PDX.) Anyhoo, we're going to compare noisefloors on our EIIs and I'll let you know what we find.
"The Jupiter-4 will be tatooed on my heart for ever."
--Phil Oakey
User avatar
Erotic Cabaret
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Portland
Real name: Tyler
Gear: P'08, MoPho, SQ-80, EII+HD, NL3

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby synthroom » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:43 pm

Tyler brought his EII over and we compared it to my EII, and his definitely is noisier than mine.

Here's a screen shot of my mixer with both our EIIs connected using just 1/4" patch cables directly into my Presonus Firestudio project interface.

Image

There's definitely a differnce in the floor noise. We tried the reseating trick on all the chips that were readily reachable but that had no effect.

Kirk
Fairlight IIx (Mid-Life Crisis - cheaper than a Corvette!)
Roland JP-8, D-50, S-50, S-550(2x), S-760(2x), JX-3P, JD-800
EII, Emax II, Minimoog, ARP 2600, P-5 Rev.1 (broken...), Pro-One, Crumar Performer, K1m, K5m, MS-2000B, Virus KC, a few other things.
User avatar
synthroom
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:16 pm
Location: pdx
Real name: Kirk
Gear: Fairlight IIx(!), JP-8, D-50, S-50+550, S-760, JX-3P, JD-800, EII, Emax II, Mini, ARP 2600, P-5 Rev.1, Pro-One, Performer, K1m, K5m, few other things.

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby Erotic Cabaret » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:24 am

BUMP!
"The Jupiter-4 will be tatooed on my heart for ever."
--Phil Oakey
User avatar
Erotic Cabaret
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 pm
Location: Portland
Real name: Tyler
Gear: P'08, MoPho, SQ-80, EII+HD, NL3

Re: Emulator II - Sampling Noisefloor

Postby Stab Frenzy » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:44 am

synthroom wrote:Tyler brought his EII over and we compared it to my EII, and his definitely is noisier than mine.

Here's a screen shot of my mixer with both our EIIs connected using just 1/4" patch cables directly into my Presonus Firestudio project interface.

Image

There's definitely a differnce in the floor noise. We tried the reseating trick on all the chips that were readily reachable but that had no effect.

Kirk

I thought the noise was only added to the sample after it had been sampled? Originally EC said that the sampling process was adding noise to the samples that weren't there when the sample was originally played, the level of noise when nothing is playing has no relationship to that at all.

Also those figures tell you nothing without knowing what level a sample is playing at, it's SNR that's important, a ratio rather than an absolute value. Lastly if you had set everything up correctly for the test a noise floor of almost -60dB is actually very good for an 8-bit sampler.
User avatar
Stab Frenzy
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 9098
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: monster island*
Gear: Octatrack, Analog Four, Eurorack, Minibrute, Ultranova, many FX

PreviousNext

Return to Samplers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: grenert and 2 guests