E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.

E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:25 am

Hi,

I am considering buying a sampler such as the E-MU ESI-32 (you can get one equipped with 32 MB for less than, or about, 100 Euros over here), feed it some purchased or free Mellotron samples, connect a MIDI keyboard, and use that as a Mellotron substitute.

Is that a good idea, or complete nonsense?
Last edited by Weirdofromouterspace on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Advertisement:

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Melltron substitute?

Postby ppg_wavecomputer » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:48 am

This is a good idea, and rather cost-effective at that, too. I have done this for years, using self-made samples of real Trons or the sounds that have been made available through Emu themselves or companies like Masterbits. For years I couldn´t see any point in buying a Memotron or a Resch Mellotron...

... although I must confess, psychologically, it does make a difference whether you are playing the samples from a master keyboard controller of sorts or from a device that is designed to look and perform like a real Mellotron -- that´s why I finally ended up getting the Resch 4000D.

When sampling the Tron into your Emu, make sure you don´t loop the samples -- you *can´t* sustain notes forever on a Tron which does affect your playing technique and, ultimately, the way it sounds in your music.

Stephen
"Like the light from distant stars, Stephen Parsick's music has existed for some time, but is only now reaching us on Earth." -- Chuck van Zyl / Star´s End
User avatar
ppg_wavecomputer
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:37 pm
Location: teutoburg forest, eastern westphalia, germany
Gear: brain
Band: ['ramp]

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:23 pm

Hi Stephen,

thanks a lot!

... wobei wir unter uns ja auch gleich auf Deutsch hätten schreiben können ;) .
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby ppg_wavecomputer » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:17 pm

Da hätten wir aber Schimpfe vom Moderator bekommen, von wegen, Forumsprache Englisch ;)...

Stephen
"Like the light from distant stars, Stephen Parsick's music has existed for some time, but is only now reaching us on Earth." -- Chuck van Zyl / Star´s End
User avatar
ppg_wavecomputer
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:37 pm
Location: teutoburg forest, eastern westphalia, germany
Gear: brain
Band: ['ramp]

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby gcoudert » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:54 pm

The e-Mu samples are looped and too clean. The Mike Pinder ones are grittier and unlooped (I have both). You might want to look for a copy of the latter if you're after a more vintage sound.
Gilles C.
gcoudert
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: SE England

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby garranimal » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:03 pm

I have the esi-32 and love it for the great D/A converters with warm filters. The older e-mu, akai, and ensoniq (I briefly had an ASR-10) samplers still sound great to these ears. Be sure to check out which rom version comes with the unit in question to see if the extended filter sets are available. It is also critical to know how much ram is already on board, I don't know if the upgrade (old) ram chips are easily available or what they might cost.
User avatar
garranimal
Expert Member
Expert Member
 
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:57 pm
Location: Oklahoma City
Band: G-Strom Electro

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:09 am

Hi,

gcoudert wrote:The e-Mu samples are looped and too clean. The Mike Pinder ones are grittier and unlooped (I have both). You might want to look for a copy of the latter if you're after a more vintage sound.


thanks for the advice, I'll look for the Mike Pinder ones then!

garranimal wrote:I have the esi-32 and love it for the great D/A converters with warm filters. The older e-mu, akai, and ensoniq (I briefly had an ASR-10) samplers still sound great to these ears. Be sure to check out which rom version comes with the unit in question to see if the extended filter sets are available. It is also critical to know how much ram is already on board, I don't know if the upgrade (old) ram chips are easily available or what they might cost.


Yayyyyy... I bid on an E-MU ESI-32 including a 300 MB SCSI HDD (hopefully full of great samples ;) - I'll see when it arrives) on German Ebay on Saturday, and I got it for less than 70 Euros :D . It is equipped with 32 MB RAM so I won't need to look for a RAM upgrade.
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby ppg_wavecomputer » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:19 am

The Mike Pinder library also contains some Chamberlin stuff but last time I saw a copy of the CDROM for sale, it was hideously expensive (more expensive than your ESI, actually). You might also want to try and find one of Klaus Hoffmann-Hoock´s early Mellotron sampling CDs that he was offering before he struck a deal with MasterBits, G-Force, and Manikin.

Agree with what has been said about the Emu samples -- they are too clean-sounding to be really authentic indeed but it´s easy to add a little imperfection and nearly impossible to take it away. Running a sampled Tron through all sorts of external lo-fi stuff helps tremendously to make the overall "feel" more authentic.

Stay away from the Propeller Island Mellotron Sampling CD that was brought out sometime in the early 1990s -- not really convincingly made, I´m sorry to say so.

While we are at it, I have a copy of the Masterbits sample CDROM for sale, now that I have got a Memotron...

Stephen
"Like the light from distant stars, Stephen Parsick's music has existed for some time, but is only now reaching us on Earth." -- Chuck van Zyl / Star´s End
User avatar
ppg_wavecomputer
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:37 pm
Location: teutoburg forest, eastern westphalia, germany
Gear: brain
Band: ['ramp]

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:33 am

Hi,

ppg_wavecomputer wrote:The Mike Pinder library also contains some Chamberlin stuff but last time I saw a copy of the CDROM for sale, it was hideously expensive (more expensive than your ESI, actually).


I just found that out as well. They sell them for $199 plus shipping :? via mellotron.com...

ppg_wavecomputer wrote:While we are at it, I have a copy of the Masterbits sample CDROM for sale, now that I have got a Memotron...


PM sent.
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Syn-Fi » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:04 am

Clavia Nord has some great Mellotron samples for the Nord Wave and they're approved by Mellotron. I think you can use them in the Nord Stage.

Clavia Nord Mellotron Page
Gear List:
(1) Waldorf Q Yellow
(2) Waldorf Xtk
(3) Waldorf Pulse 2
(4) Nord Wave
(5) Oto Biscuit

Retired:
Access Virus Ti2 Polar
V-Synth
Ensoniq Fizmo
Ensoniq ESQ-M
Oberheim Matrix 1000
Waldorf Q+ (why, oh why?)
User avatar
Syn-Fi
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:06 am

Hi,

Syn-Fi wrote:Clavia Nord has some great Mellotron samples for the Nord Wave and they're approved by Mellotron. I think you can use them in the Nord Stage.


erm... that's nice, but I don't have a Nord Stage (nor any other Clavia instruments ;) ). The sampler I'll hopefully receive this week is an E-MU ESI-32.
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby madtheory » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:53 am

Actually the Mike Pinder library sounds all have a very gentle attack, not the usual Mellotron bark, so it won't cover all your needs. It is worth having though. Much easier to do pads with these sounds, and choirs are gorgeous.
ppg_wavecomputer wrote:Stay away from the Propeller Island Mellotron Sampling CD that was brought out sometime in the early 1990s -- not really convincingly made, I´m sorry to say so.

What do you mean? The sound is very good. It compares really well with G Force M Tron. It sounds like a regular M400 but you only get male voices, flute, strings and some silly sound effects though.

I ended up using Redmatica Autosampler to get my fully expanded G Force M Tron into Kontakt. More flexibility and cheaper than the G Force upgrade.

With the Propeller Island, Mike Pinder and the (shock horror) looped stuff from the Emu library, I'm covered. I also have the Optigan.com discs.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Fabreeze, Buck Owens Moog, Korg Warlock 9000, Roland Sultan of Brunei, Moog Ribald Cat.
Band: madtheory

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:07 am

Hi,

sorry, it's me again, and I'm actually sick, tired and rather fed up with it :evil: .

The sampler itself seems to work as it should, at least all functions are displayed as they should.
However, I still couldn't load any of the Akai format samples in there.

I have:
The e-Mu ESI-32 with maxed out memory,
2 SCSI CD drives, at least one of which apparently works and is recognized by the sampler,
the original MasterBits Mellotron sample CD in Akai format,
all required adapter cables etc.

I tried the 'load' and 'Akai import' functions according to the ESI-32 manual. I didn't get past 'no disk in drive', though.

However, I also have the original MasterBits Mellotron sample CD in .wav format. But I'm not too keen on sampling 35 separate samples via the laptop computer just to get one sound bank into the sampler.

Is there any way to compile the (depending on which sound it is) 23 - 35 separate .wav samples into one bank and load this into the sampler in one go via MIDI, perhaps comparable to loading a Sysex bank into a DX synth?

I just read about Elektron C6 but haven't tried it yet.

And please, no 'rtfm' answers. I did rtfm... but it didn't get me any further :| . I'm so disappointed right now that I am actually thinking about selling the sampler again and going without the Mellotron sounds I wanted :---) .
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby madtheory » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:52 am

Ah, you're in SCSI hell. This is not unusual. Forget loading sounds via MIDI, it would take an infinite amount of time with 35 Mellotron samples.

Do you have a SCSI terminator? Are you certain each device has a unique ID? Are the cables good? The ESI is fairly widely compatible, so I don't think it's the drive unless they're broken. Does the ESI see each device when they're the only thing in the SCSI chain? You'll have to reboot the ESI each time you need to make a new chain. Do you have the latest ROM version for the ESI? I think it was 3.0.2 IIRC.

http://www.milton.arachsys.com/nj71/ind ... u=3&page=1
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Fabreeze, Buck Owens Moog, Korg Warlock 9000, Roland Sultan of Brunei, Moog Ribald Cat.
Band: madtheory

Re: E-MU Sampler as a Mellotron substitute?

Postby Weirdofromouterspace » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:37 am

Hi,

thanks so much for your quick answer =D> !

madtheory wrote:Ah, you're in SCSI hell.


That's exactly what it feels like, yep. :cryin:

madtheory wrote:Forget loading sounds via MIDI, it would take an infinite amount of time with 35 Mellotron samples.


OK, good to know. If really anything else fails I could still load the samples via the audio input, I have a USB-to-1/4"-audio-jack adapter. A 1/4" to cinch connector adapter would also be no problem.

35 times 8 seconds (net time to play the samples) is between 4 and 5 mins, plus the handling/assigning time... better than nothing, I suppose.

madtheory wrote:Do you have a SCSI terminator?


The Pioneer drive I tried first definitely has a terminator (little jumper on the back), and I believe so for the Yamaha drive as well, but I'll check that again.[/quote]

madtheory wrote:Are you certain each device has a unique ID? Are the cables good?


Definitely yes. I tried the cables on a SCSI HD, and it was detected as it should.

madtheory wrote:Does the ESI see each device when they're the only thing in the SCSI chain?


Yes for the Pioneer, I'll check again for the Yamaha (although the 'no disk in drive' message reads as if the drive itself were detected?!).

madtheory wrote:You'll have to reboot the ESI each time you need to make a new chain.


Yes, and I did that. The setup is actually rather simple - ESI in the middle, CD drive on the one end, and a MIDI keyboard on the other end.

madtheory wrote:Do you have the latest ROM version for the ESI? I think it was 3.0.2 IIRC.


Not sure about that, but I am currently not really willing to spend another ~ $100 (~ €75) on the EPROM if it's a previous version :? . HxC floppy emulator (so I'd have everything in one unit without any external drives) is about the same price.

Edit: Just found this (sorry, it's in German): http://www.marjorie.de/emu/emu.htm
Might be worth a try if I actually need an OS update. He says he does it at self-cost price plus a 'little allowance'.

Anyway, thanks again so much for the quick answer. I guess I know what I'll be doing on the weekend...
User avatar
Weirdofromouterspace
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:30 pm
Location: Germany
Gear: Yamaha DX7IID, Yamaha DX21, Arturia Minibrute, E-MU ESI-32, and loads of non-synth instruments

Next

Return to Samplers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests