tips for cool samples

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.

Postby pour_furets » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:36 am

tallowwaters wrote:pour fourets, could you email me one of those? i cant do the soundclicky thing.


Sorry, I haven't been on in a while. If the 'fuck an otter' :shock: thing doesn't work out, pm me with your email address and I'll send the files to you pdq.

Awesome examples, by the way. The paper one gave me the impression of the creaking on a large sea vessel. The truck suspension sounded appropriately industrial-like. The transform-multiply one is my favorite, though. I sold my E-mu ESI sampler a couple of years ago. I never really explored the transform-multiply effect on it. The few times I did try, the results were unpredictable- and none to interesting. It took so long to process the samples, I just didn't have the patience to tweak it. From the manual's description, it seemed to be mostly a vocoder type effect with one sample acting as the carrier and the other the modulator. I'm sure there's more going on in the process- I'd be curious to know what that is, though.

Code Green, thanks. I get that reaction a lot from our 4-legged friends (dogs, cats, ferrets, and...erm...otters alike).
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Postby GeneralBigbag » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:34 pm

The Emu's ability to retrigger samples from the clock source can be put to some pretty excellent uses.
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Postby digitaljosh » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:35 pm

What I used to do alot is use Cool Edit and do alot of FX to a section of the track, then fade it in, then copy it, then undo it all back to normal, then fade the normal part out, then Mix paste in the other part; so you have a great fade to an effect! Then you can always do the same process after that with reverse fades to fade it out back to normal. Their are Millions of combos like that you can do. I did this and called it my own type of screwed music. I got a bunch of kids wanting me to do this for their rap tracks in high school. ah the good old days....not.
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Postby thestreets » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:11 am

I just had a cool sampling "experiment".

I love ambience. It is one of my favorite aspects of making music. I just love creepy, eerie, beautiful, reverby, whatever it is, soundscapes. So I had recently just been using Absynth and my hardware synths but i wanted to try something different for the song i was working on.

I started scrolling through my saved samples and i came across an old commercial from the 70s that i had sampled. It had little jingle that had a horn section in it. I tuned the sample to the key of the track and set the start and release so that it would stay on the one key i needed (A). I proceeded to lace the sample with tons of delay and reverb so that it all meshed together to create this fantastic ambient soundscape. I looped it under the track and it fit perfectly. It acted as a fast-attack, yet ambient soundscape. I love the way it came out.
Never thought ambience could come out of a sample but i made it happen.


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Postby wilsontherocker » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:20 pm

My TX16W (w/ Typhoon 2000 OS) has two features that lead quickly to fun new sounds: 1) time stretch & 2) auto pitch. Here's how it usually goes:

- Take a short, usually percussive sample and time stretch it.
- Time stretch it some more.
- Perhaps, even more.
- Then use autopitch to quickly tune the sample.
- Apply looping as needed.

Using this method, I've been able to turn a kick drum into a fairly convincing electric piano, a snap into the sound of a hundred people playing pinball, and a kazoo squawk into a nasty synth lead. The TX16W has a few options that make its time stretch fairly flexible (but not for actual high quality time stretching), and really all it is is a simple form of granular synthesis.

I'm sure the TX16W isn't the only sampler with these features, but I'd probably recommend an older sampler with a crappy time stretch for better mangling fun. :wink:
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Postby tallowwaters » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:49 pm

best sample mangling tip i can give to date...

(drumroll)


buy a v synth.

it seriously makes all this long winded crap i used to do too easy.
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Postby shaft9000 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:20 pm

digitaljosh wrote:What I used to do alot is use Cool Edit and do alot of FX to a section of the track, then fade it in, then copy it, then undo it all back to normal, then fade the normal part out, then Mix paste in the other part; so you have a great fade to an effect! Then you can always do the same process after that with reverse fades to fade it out back to normal. Their are Millions of combos like that you can do. I did this and called it my own type of screwed music. I got a bunch of kids wanting me to do this for their rap tracks in high school. ah the good old days....not.


That's a good tip. I still use CoolEdit Pro all the time for sample-warpage and basic editing. It's the most useful audio toolbox in Windows imho.
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Postby tallowwaters » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:44 pm

Courtesy of Analog Freak

http://www.xs4all.nl/~avg/tranzilon/info.html
It's a piece of software that allows you to create two different waveforms and morph smoothly between them. It's apparently meant to allow you to make your own Transwaves for the Ensoniq EPS, EPS 16+, and the ASR-10, but since it can export the generated Transwaves as 16 bit WAV files, everybody ought to be able to use them. I swear, I've never had this much fun before with my samplers. I've been getting the most wicked stuff this side of Waldorf and PPG out of my speakers all afternoon. Best of all it's FREE.
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Vintage Sampler Emulation w/Yamaha A-Series

Postby aeon » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 pm

I recently wrote a post on another forum about using the Yamaha A-series samplers to emulate the sound of vintage digital samplers.

The 6 effects blocks (3 on A3K, A4K) allow for deep control and creative timbral options that go way beyond vintage AD/DA and linear interpolation in terms of emulating a vintage digital sampler.

Here is an example of this kind of processing:

Image

  1. The first two fx blocks use the beatchanger. This effect changes the speed of sample playback without changing the pitch. I set them up in inverse relationship such that the first speeds playback up while the second slows playback down for a net zero speed effect. That said, there is an effect as it concerns sample quality, as it now has artifacts that reference the sound of add/drop algos and/or other primitive interpolations. I enhance this by setting one beatchanger to honor sustains, which causes blur and smear, and the other beatchanger to honor transients, which causes pitch hiccups.
  2. See #1.
  3. The next fx block is the techmod. This effect adds signal that sounds like ringmod according to Yamaha. I use it to simulate the effects of poor anti-alias filters in a vintage sampler. With careful adjustment of the parameters, the signal ends up with a certain amount of digi-hash and inharmonic partials.
  4. The next fx block is the loreso. According to Yamaha, this effect simulates a lowered resolution for the input signal. The "resolution" parameter controls a rough digital grain.
  5. The next fx block, atklofi, has a lo-fi character and emphasizes the attack of the signal. I use it to simulate the sound of vintage samplers that made use of delta-sigma encoding with preemphasis such that transient sounds like drums would lose their punch and get rough.
  6. The final fx block, lofi, is a feature-rich downsampler and bitcrusher with controls for sampling frequency, word length, output drive and clip, alias-generating filter and resonance, filter color, emphasis, and bit mangling.

Each of these fx blocks has mix control, and their parameters may be moduated in real-time via controller or internal step-sequence LFO. This serial chain can be reconfigured in other ways, e.g. dual parallel, multi-sum, etc.

With on-board samples the A5000 has 6 fx blocks to the A4K's/A3K's 3 fx blocks - nice indeed if you are an fx slut, or if you are using the sampler multi-timbrally or for drum duties (compression + dirt for 6x drum samples is sweet).

That said, if you use the sampler in live mode, that is, fx on the analog inputs, the A5K is the same as the A4K/A3K - you can only use 3 of the fx blocks. :(

Not so bad really - I use one of two serial chains to give the "vintage sampler" sound to live input from other synths:

-> beatchange (transients) -> beatchange (sustain) -> lofi ->

or

-> techmod -> loreso -> lofi ->

There are other algos that also give some nice modulated digital hash and dirt in the Yammy samplers that I did not cover here. I love my A5000 as an effects device as much as I do a sampler. It often gets used as a colored "preamp" for other synths.

I appreciate the sound of vintage samplers, no question. That said, feeding a modern sampler with "ahh" waves generated via vocal physical modelling and then processing as above is a fresh take on the classic Fairlight vox sound.


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Re: Vintage Sampler Emulation w/Yamaha A-Series

Postby madtheory » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:38 pm

Cool! Thanks aeon. Please Yamaha, make your cool effects available as plugins...
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Re: Vintage Sampler Emulation w/Yamaha A-Series

Postby Sir Ruff » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:34 am

thanks for that! very useful to A-series users I'm sure (of which I'm not), but more impressive to me in the usage of effects... I often forget that a few layered effects are probably the source of a lot of my "how did they do that?" type sounds.... Shamefully, I have a DP4 which should be able to mimic what you are doing (in the chaining-sense anyways), but it's virtually untouched. Tsk! This has encouraged me to re-investigate that beast!

On the other hand tho, I can see someone reading this and saying (after your 3rd or 4th "lo-fi" treatment), "why go through all this just to make old sampler sounds?" But of course it's much better to have a cheap modern unit that can do vintage and modern sounds, than a pricier vintage unit that can ONLY do vintage sounds! :lol:
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Re: Vintage Sampler Emulation w/Yamaha A-Series

Postby Hugo76 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:50 am

Very interesting tip, aeon, much appreciated. I used to own an A4000, but had to let it go unfortunately.
If I can afford one this fall, I'll be picking up the A5000. Efx are awesome, and as you say, 6 blocks. Fantastic possibilities :D
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Re: Vintage Sampler Emulation w/Yamaha A-Series

Postby madtheory » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:11 am

Sir Ruff wrote:than a pricier vintage unit that can ONLY do vintage sounds! :lol:

And breaks down a lot, and takes up loads of space... I still want a Fairlight though! ;)
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Postby crystalmsc » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:31 am

thank you for the great tips, it's nice to know that some of the goodies are also in the RS :D
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Re: Vintage Sampler Emulation w/Yamaha A-Series

Postby aeon » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:23 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:thanks for that!


You are most welcome.

Sir Ruff wrote:very useful to A-series users I'm sure (of which I'm not), but more impressive to me in the usage of effects... I often forget that a few layered effects are probably the source of a lot of my "how did they do that?" type sounds....


I have thought for some time now that the key to achieving ear-catching, signature sounds is the creative use of post-processing. Effects go a long way to bringing new timbres to the mix in a manner that another synth cannot.

Sir Ruff wrote:Shamefully, I have a DP4 which should be able to mimic what you are doing (in the chaining-sense anyways), but it's virtually untouched. Tsk! This has encouraged me to re-investigate that beast!


Good to hear. The Ensoniq DP/4 is a quite capable effects processor, and one with tones not to be found in other sources, hard or soft.

Sir Ruff wrote:On the other hand tho, I can see someone reading this and saying (after your 3rd or 4th "lo-fi" treatment), "why go through all this just to make old sampler sounds?" But of course it's much better to have a cheap modern unit that can do vintage and modern sounds, than a pricier vintage unit that can ONLY do vintage sounds! :lol:


Yep - I do it because the degree of control and sound programming goes way beyond what the vintage device can deliver. And these "vintage lo-fi" sounds are only one thing that can be pursued.

I also think part of the value of programmable devices is realized by programming them. With as good a sound as the A-series engine, filters, and effects produce (to my ear), program them I will!


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