Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby tallowwaters » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:34 pm

from Graham

OK here we go, I just got my Microsystems PCD50 SCSI card reader in the mail yesterday and put it in my ESi2000.

Does it work? Yes. Yes it does. It works brilliantly! :D :D

It doesn't seem to suffer the issues that the PCD47 has in the ESi - like only being able to load small samples/banks, and if you do load a larger one >1MB on the PCD47 it corrupts everything (although this still may be caused by other things like the card brand used).

Not the PCD50. I loaded a 15MB bank I made into it and loaded it back and everything played perfectly.

BUT!!!! Here was the catch with the PCD50:

The ESi2000/4000 can only see 1 card slot - the PCMCIA card slot.

The PCD50 is a multi-card reader (5 different cards). I messed about with jumper settings for a little while to see if I could get them to appear but I couldn't. I then read the manual for the PCD and it stated that the PCD50 is a LUN (Logical Unit number) based device (which I knew before buying it). The ESi2000/4000 are also LUN based devices, and so I thought that that might make them compatible and not have the issues of the PCD47 (the PCD47 is Device ID# based, not LUN based) and bought it on that basis.

After thinking about it during the night, I think I figured out why the ESi couldn't see the other slots. Here comes my theory about LUN's (I need to read up on this first really but I think it's correct):

Imagine a tree with 8 large branches off the trunk. The trunk is the SCSI main data pipeline.

The 8 branches are the LUN's.

Off each LUN there is up to 8 small branches (or 15 in certain circumstances). These are the Hard drive Device numbers. So each LUN can have up to 15 (but normally only 8) hard drives or devices.

A LUN based device, such as the ESi samplers, has a LUN ID#.
It also has 8 (or 15) device ID's for that LUN that it is set to - this is the SCSI drive ID# you set in the ESi.

The PCD50 is a LUN based device.
Slot #1 (the PCMCIA card slot) is set to LUN #1. (this is from the specs chart of the PCD50 manual)
Slot #2 (the CF card slot) is set to LUN #2.
Slot #3 (the SM card slot) is for LUN #3

and so on for the other cards.

Therein lies the problem. The ESI is set to LUN #1, so it can only see the card slot set to LUN 1. It is fixed at that LUN #1.

So what can we say about the PCD50 card reader and the ESI2000/4000?

You should consider the PCD50 as a single card reader for the purposes of the ESI samplers

So you can use a PCMCIA card with it, or a CF card and PCMCIA card adapter (which is what I am using). Or any number of adapters that will eventually take a certain card to a PCMCIA card should work. CF cards are cheap though, so you may as well just use them and the adapter.

So, unless you can change the LUN # of the Esi, then it won't be able to access the other card slots (There actually may be some jumpers on the Esi mainboard to do this - anyone know about this?). Or change the LUN # of the PCD's slots (there doesn't seem to be any jumpers to do this).

Would I recommend this card reader?

Let's look at it in comparison to other card setups for the ESi.

Firstly, the SCSI for Samplers card reader - the Spyrus MCDISK-2.
SCSI For Samplers no longer exists. You can buy the Spyrus MCDISK-2 off ebay from a shop brand new for $170. They're also getting scarce. It's only a single type card reader (it has 2 slots but they're both PCMCIA). It's proven to work on the ESi sampler.

Next, the PCD47 multi-card reader (3 cards). This IS a device #ID reader (unlike the PCD50).
It has had varying success (the EMUs on Acid forum discussed it at length), and some people have reported it doesn't load large samples or banks without corrupting them (there may be variables here though - like the card brand). Others claimed they could only get 2 card slots to appear on the ESi, or only 1 (again, possible user variation factors). Price: around $170

Now the PCD50.
Multi-card - but only single card in the ESi sampler. Works perfectly. No issues using a PCMCIA-to-CF card adapter and a Sandisk 128MB CF card. Loads large banks perfectly. Fast load time - at least as fast as an external SCSI hard drive. Available new: yes - price $129 from here:

http://www.psism.com/reader.htm#SCSI

You can go for any of these 2nd hand on ebay for any price but i wanted to compare new prices so that there was a definite place to buy these if people wanted them.

There are also other setups that people have done - like an ACARD SCSI to iDE bridge adapter, and then an IDE to CF adapter. Some have reported this working OK, others not.


In summary:

Yes, I would definitely recommend it - but consider it only a single card reader for the purposes of the Esi2000/4000/32. Looked at in that light with the other 2 card readers I mentioned - it is the cheapest of them all brand new, and it doesn't have the varying issues of the PCD47 with the ESi. You'll need a CF card and a CF to PCMCIA adapter card (readily available)

I actually picked mine up for $100 from an ebay shop.
He also has another one for sale for $100 here at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCM-Microsystems-PC ... 7C294%3A50

With all of these SCSI card readers, you'll need to buy an internal 50pin SCSI ribbon cable to connect it internally to your ESi. You'll also need to make a power adapter for it to run off the ESi floppy drive power supply socket. Just find an old computer power supply with the floppy drive power lead and plug on it - it will be piggy-back attached to a normal hard drive power plug. Just cut off this hard drive-floppy drive connector cable together, so they're still joined together and it will fit directly into the card reader power socket and also into the floppy drive socket on the ESi circuit board.

With the PCD50, i found it was a vey long drive - longer physically than the floppy drive that it replaced. When you plug the power plug into its socket, it hits against the Esi internal power supply unit components - not a good thing. You can unscrew the whole ESI power supply unit and move it away slightly - drill some new holes in the casing bottom and remount it - easy.

You could, of course, mount it in an external case and external power supply and connect it to the Esi through the port at the back - this would save any mounting issues I mentioned, and you could also then use the card reader on the computer and you WOULD get all 5 card slots seen there.

I hope that helps someone going through the same journey as me. It felt like hell at the time but now I look back it was easy, had I known what I know now - at least you all can start off knowing now! :D
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby gmeredith » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:16 pm

That ebay link didn't render properly..here it is again, hope it works:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SCM-Microsystems-PC ... 7C294%3A50

Cheers, graham
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby PolarAC » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:05 am

Thats sucks about SCSI for Samplers going out of business. I was able to find a SCSI card reader for my ASR-10 from them (a godsend!). Dude was really helpful also.
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby esqoner » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:27 am

PolarAC wrote:Thats sucks about SCSI for Samplers going out of business. I was able to find a SCSI card reader for my ASR-10 from them (a godsend!). Dude was really helpful also.


bummer for sure.

went to their site the other day to find it very much abbr.
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby Milhouse » Wed May 06, 2009 3:11 pm

So i recently picked up an Ensoniq ASR-X pro. I have been looking at the scsi storage. I was looking online and found they they sell scsi to usb cords. Is it possible to just use an external HD and have it connected to the Ensoniq?
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby tallowwaters » Wed May 06, 2009 9:38 pm

Like a portable USB hard drive? No. You are going to need a SCSI hard drive.
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby Milhouse » Thu May 07, 2009 4:11 pm

tallowwaters wrote:Like a portable USB hard drive? No. You are going to need a SCSI hard drive.


aahh ok, Thanks for the info!! After doing some reading on the Ensoniq it kind of sounded like the USB HD wouldn't work. But i needed a definate yes or no. Thanks!
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby nuketifromorbit » Mon May 11, 2009 3:37 am

tallowwaters wrote:Needing somewhere to put all those samples?

Well here is a cheap and effective cure that I am happy to report works perfectly in my Korg ESX!

This:

Image
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820163403

and these:

Image
Find them just about anywhere. Look in the bargain bins at Staples or Office Depot.

(credit to sorcerio)

I know for a fact that these work on my Korg ES1. i think BlueMonster uses on his roland mc something...

I just thought I should confirm that these also work with the zoom mrs4 multitrack.
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby balma » Mon May 11, 2009 4:56 pm

nuketifromorbit wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:Needing somewhere to put all those samples?

Well here is a cheap and effective cure that I am happy to report works perfectly in my Korg ESX!

This:

Image
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820163403

and these:

Image
Find them just about anywhere. Look in the bargain bins at Staples or Office Depot.

(credit to sorcerio)

I know for a fact that these work on my Korg ES1. i think BlueMonster uses on his roland mc something...

I just thought I should confirm that these also work with the zoom mrs4 multitrack.



Hey man, what is "that"???. I also has the Korg sampler, having a lot of problems when storaging samples. Only have 1 smartmedia of 64Mb and it's already full.


I also have an issue with the SCSI of my ROLAND SP 808ex. I have the expansion board on one of my SP808, with digital/coaxial inputs and SCSI for connecting an external ZIP ATAPI of 250MB.

But when I connect the cable, the sampler turns off, like no power connected :( I don't understand why this happen! the external ATaPi has his own power cord, I just connect the cable to the SCSI input and the thing does not power up.

Edited!!!

One hour later.....

Thank you man!!! I already bought one from Newegg....

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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby SfS_JD » Sat May 23, 2009 11:29 pm

esqoner wrote:
PolarAC wrote:Thats sucks about SCSI for Samplers going out of business. I was able to find a SCSI card reader for my ASR-10 from them (a godsend!). Dude was really helpful also.


bummer for sure.

went to their site the other day to find it very much abbr.


We are back in business since March with a pretty much full compliment of storage gear again, so please visit us again. Still under the same ownership and management, with our same award-winning customer service (I gave myself a little award).

I'm afraid the Spyrus card readers are gone as a regular product. At last check (7/7/09), there is one guy selling them on eBay and he is up to $245.00 USD per drive. Youch! But we have the solution...

The CF-CARD SCSI Compact Flash card reader/writer drive. This single CF card slot unit is super-fast and compatible with many samplers, as many or more than the Microtech or Spyrus. And best of all, the price is only $89.00 USD for the drive. Your sampler may require a mounting kit that can add a bit to that cost but many samplers only need the basic kit, which is $10.00 USD. These drives use a Compact Flash card directly and require no PCMCIA adapters and they have been tested to work with CF cards up to 8GB. Of course, the amount of storage space you will get from a CF card is dependant upon your sampler's operating system. Please have a look at these drives and let me know if you have any questions. Finally, everyone can afford a SCSI Card Reader/Writer drive for their sampler! :D You can see it here: http://scsiforsamplers.com/cfcard.asp

We also have the NDISK, a 3.5" drive that provides 9GB of fast, totally silent storage for your sampler. It only draws 5 volts (600mA), runs cool as a cucumber and makes the perfect internal SCSI drive. It weights 13 ounces and can be velcroed inside the sampler (for those tight situations) and can even be taken out of the little aluminum case and mounted as a "drive on a board". Best of all, the unit only costs $50.00 USD. You can see it here: http://scsiforsamplers.com/ndisk.asp

We have custom install kits for many samplers like the Kurzweils, MPC2000XL, MPC2000 (yes, we have figured out how to install an internal drive with NO soldering), MPC60, MPC3000, Korg Triton Classic and Rack and many more.

So please everyone, visit our site again, take a new look and let me know what you think. 8)
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby diezdiazgiant » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:55 am

Mmm, those drives for the mpc2000 have got me interested in picking up a cheap mpc...


But anyways, anyone know if there's any sort of adapter for mini sd to smartmedia cards? Google didn't give me any results but I'm hoping it exists...
It occured to me that if there was, with my phone I would be able to access files on my computer and throw them onto the sd card. That would be really awesome for doing sets with electribes, among other things...
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby SfS_JD » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:13 am

BTW, we have discovered that the CF-CARD drive will allow you to use up to 8GB of storage on a CF card for the Akai MPC2000 Classic and MPC2000XL. 8GB on a CF card for the MPC2000 Classic and MPC2000XL! :D No more 1GB limits. Honestly, this is an added feature we weren't expecting but are very happy with. Finally, some real storage space on a Compact Flash card for the MPC2ks. And the speed of the CF-CARD is almost that of a hard drive, so all around, this drive is a very nice storage option for your Akai sampler and the price isn't too bad either.

Remember that we now offer a painless internal SCSI drive installation kit for the MPC2000 Classic. Not that unbearable soldering torture test :shock: but instead, a kit that makes no permanant modfications to your MPC and installs in about half an hour. You'll be crying tears of joy, just like this fellow.:cry:
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby Offworld » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:11 am

HideawayStudio wrote:I'm not convinced that some of the newer compact flash or MMC card to SCSI converter solutions will work in the older SCSI samplers such as EIII and S1000 - please prove me wrong as this would be a very neat/quiet running solution.

For older cherished samplers I still highly recommend the use of SCSI 230Mb Magneto Optical (MO) drives for these machines as the media is extremely stable unlike ZIP, SyQuest, SyJet and Jazz!! They were the professional choice for archival use for a long period. The drive to look out for is the Olympus Power MO 230II which was popular on Macs at one point and runs very quietly. The disks are still available and should be ok second hand. I have 230Mb MO disks dating back to 1991 that still work perfectly. The MO drives will work for definite on the E-mu EMAX II, Emulator IIIXP, S1000 & S1100 and I'm sure very many others.

Cheers,


I've been using SCSI for Samplers CF drive on the following.... EMU_ EIII keyboard, EIIIxp, E4x, E4xt Ultra, Emax, Emax II. Dynacord_ Add-Two, ADS. AKAI_ S3000. The Emu Emax will only format up to 20MB so I used 32MB CF cards, about $1 each.
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby HideawayStudio » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:49 pm

Offworld wrote:
HideawayStudio wrote:I'm not convinced that some of the newer compact flash or MMC card to SCSI converter solutions will work in the older SCSI samplers such as EIII and S1000 - please prove me wrong as this would be a very neat/quiet running solution.

For older cherished samplers I still highly recommend the use of SCSI 230Mb Magneto Optical (MO) drives for these machines as the media is extremely stable unlike ZIP, SyQuest, SyJet and Jazz!! They were the professional choice for archival use for a long period. The drive to look out for is the Olympus Power MO 230II which was popular on Macs at one point and runs very quietly. The disks are still available and should be ok second hand. I have 230Mb MO disks dating back to 1991 that still work perfectly. The MO drives will work for definite on the E-mu EMAX II, Emulator IIIXP, S1000 & S1100 and I'm sure very many others.

Cheers,


I've been using SCSI for Samplers CF drive on the following.... EMU_ EIII keyboard, EIIIxp, E4x, E4xt Ultra, Emax, Emax II. Dynacord_ Add-Two, ADS. AKAI_ S3000. The Emu Emax will only format up to 20MB so I used 32MB CF cards, about $1 each.


Hey thanks - this is priceless information! - very good news because finally our ancient monsters can run with silent drives instead of the washing machines they're currently fitted with.

I will have to look into retrofitting my EIII and EMAX IIs.
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Re: Sample storage - SCSI stuff and so forth

Postby xenomorph313 » Wed May 05, 2010 3:26 am

balma wrote:
nuketifromorbit wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:Needing somewhere to put all those samples?

Well here is a cheap and effective cure that I am happy to report works perfectly in my Korg ESX!

This:

Image
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820163403

and these:

Image
Find them just about anywhere. Look in the bargain bins at Staples or Office Depot.

(credit to sorcerio)

I know for a fact that these work on my Korg ES1. i think BlueMonster uses on his roland mc something...

I just thought I should confirm that these also work with the zoom mrs4 multitrack.



Hey man, what is "that"???. I also has the Korg sampler, having a lot of problems when storaging samples. Only have 1 smartmedia of 64Mb and it's already full.


"that" is a Smartmedia to xD adapter and a fuji-film xD compact photo card, in that order. I didnt find any as small as 64MB in my town, and this part of the pair is nearly impossible to find in store, and even rarely on ebay. However, regarding the Smartmedia to xD adapter, a friend of mine that lives in Phoenix, AZ bought a couple of the SMC-XD adapters for .90 a piece at Fry's electronics. They were having a "super blowout" sale. Might want to check it out if you have a Fry's electronics nearby.
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