Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Synthaholic » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:54 pm

Well, if a seller prices their item too high, it won't sell. Unless someone wants it real bad.

Someone who pays $1500 for a SH-101... either they're an idiot or they want that SH-101 REALLY bad.

But if you have an SH-101 and aren't in a big hurry to sell it, price it high and see if someone bites. If someone does, you can buy 2-3 more SH-101s. If not, no big loss, you still have your synth.

If you're in a hurry to unload something, price it low. Or set a low opening bid, no reserve, and let the bidders set the price.

Setting an insanely high price when selling an item isn't stupid, it's clever. The only redeeming value of idiots is to get them to part with their money. ;) And on eBay, chances are someone will. When a synth sells for 4x what it's worth, it's not the seller who is stupid. :)

Me... when I shop for synths on eBay, I tend to look for broken ones with low bids. I can get it cheaper and then fix it up, and either keep it (if the wife lets me) or sell it and make some $.
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Stab Frenzy » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:56 pm

Hybrid88 wrote:
tekkentool wrote:

DREAMING SO BAD!

Yep, this is the guy from Awave Pro Music the music shop in Melbourne, I think I've said enough on this guy - but good luck to him anyway, he needs all he can get. I bet we'll be seeing this 101 cycling through ebay for about the next, oh about five years - good one Awave \:D/

75% of the time I go in there they are totally jerks, the rest they're good. All their second hand stuff is so stupidly overpriced though, they had a Memorymoog for $10,000.
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Hybrid88 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:29 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:
Hybrid88 wrote:
tekkentool wrote:

DREAMING SO BAD!

Yep, this is the guy from Awave Pro Music the music shop in Melbourne, I think I've said enough on this guy - but good luck to him anyway, he needs all he can get. I bet we'll be seeing this 101 cycling through ebay for about the next, oh about five years - good one Awave \:D/

75% of the time I go in there they are totally jerks, the rest they're good. All their second hand stuff is so stupidly overpriced though, they had a Memorymoog for $10,000.

Hey Stab, yes I wasn't quite sure what to make of the place to be honest, I mean I've only been once and when I went there they had a small ass showroom with like 25 of the most desirable vintage synths gathering dust. When I asked if i could try one out I basically got told "oh they don't have headphone outs so you cant audition them", WTF?! - Lamest excuse I ever heard, I reckon the real reason was that they were overseas models and wouldn't work with the Aussie voltage. That and they probably don't want anyone touching - that put me off to be honest, I hate the whole, "look at my pristine minimoog model D which I won't let you touch" thing, what is the point of being such a show off? - also really bad business sense to have 85% of your showroom floor filled with non-saleable stock :roll:

Though maybe things are better now they've moved location, and sold most of the "collection". :P
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby nvbrkr » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:31 pm

Synthaholic wrote:Setting an insanely high price when selling an item isn't stupid, it's clever. The only redeeming value of idiots is to get them to part with their money. ;) And on eBay, chances are someone will. When a synth sells for 4x what it's worth, it's not the seller who is stupid. :)


Perhaps, but it still makes the seller an asshole. There is something seriously wrong with the contemporary mindset that sees some sort of redeeming value in anything that generates profit - even if it would mean resorting to questionable practices and no taxes would be paid for it. This is for some odd reason starting to be regarded even as commendable with the aid of some sort of vague ideals of "cunningness" or some shit like that. The problem is, those ideals applied during an entirely different era of cultural history - now they're just mostly working against themselves. Only very few benefit from it, so why shouldn't the rest complain?

The second hand market exists because it was originally supposed to have been a very small form of business and only licensed dealers were making any real profit by selling used items. The reason why it has been kept tax free in most countries for so long is also because of the recycling aspect involved in it. That become quite big in the 80s and the 90s. Now, with ebay and the like currently, some people are exploiting something that originally operated by entirely different means - flea markets, local paper ads etc. It worked on old-fashioned notions of "honor" and "decency", which might sound absurd today to most ears of course. But if someone tried to lead you off, it was your resposibility to inform other potential buyers about such individuals. These days we're just told to "ignore them", because apparantly it's their "personal business" etc.

But you know what? The only thing we can do at the moment is to keep complaining about it. In case you haven't noticed, publicly complaining about things does have an effect. It might not be the most effective strategy imaginable, but if it slows down the unhealthy progress and potentially introduces some changes later on then I'm all for it personally. If someone is asking 1000 dollars / euros for a SH-2000 on an internet forum that person should be rightfully criticized or even ridiculed. One of the reasons why these type of ads rile up people is also the pretentiousness and the lack of any decency as far as the content of those ads go - it's perfectly normal human behaviour to react to such things and you should react to such nonsense in one way or another. When you strongly disagree with someone on a forum, you will usually voice your opinion. Yet, for some oblivious reason when money is being involved, it's just "their personal business" and you're supposed to keep quiet about it.

Bottom line: if you want to generate considerable amounts of profit by selling used items, you should become a licensed dealer and pay some fucking taxes. It's not entirely okay just because it is still currently considered legal.
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby tekkentool » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:48 pm


:?

holy crep
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Hybrid88 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:52 pm

tekkentool wrote:
:?

holy crep

Yeah, the seller actually listed this at the start of the month with a starting bid reserve of $4500 AU but he pulled the listing, now the minimum is $6000 - can't you just imagine the guy having second thoughts and thinking, "hmm, I might just ad a bit more and see how it goes, muhahaha" (-that's the sound of him laughing all the way to the bank) ;)

But seriously as good as they are, I wouldn't get 6k's worth of music out of this thing, you need variety, not just the one synth all the time - you can get a whole setup for the price of that one synth alone. Really though, as much as many people would love to have this synth, I think the time has finally come where you just have to say enough is enough, IMO JP8 in 2010 is simply not a viable musical instument for the majority of people because of the crazy collector fuelled prices - sad but true. :cry:
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Rangoon » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:45 pm

nvbrkr wrote:If someone is asking 1000 dollars / euros for a SH-2000 on an internet forum that person should be rightfully criticized or even ridiculed...


The only "rightfull" way to criticize that person is for you to offer your SH-2000 that you have available right now (and in the same condition) for less money on the same internet forum.
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby nvbrkr » Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:40 pm

What would make that the only rightful way to criticize him?

In fact, I fail to see how that would count as a concrete act of criticism in the first place.
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Z » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:26 pm

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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Christopher Winkels » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:21 am

nvbrkr wrote:
Perhaps, but it still makes the seller an asshole. There is something seriously wrong with the contemporary mindset that sees some sort of redeeming value in anything that generates profit - even if it would mean resorting to questionable practices and no taxes would be paid for it. This is for some odd reason starting to be regarded even as commendable with the aid of some sort of vague ideals of "cunningness" or some shit like that. The problem is, those ideals applied during an entirely different era of cultural history - now they're just mostly working against themselves. Only very few benefit from it, so why shouldn't the rest complain?

The second hand market exists because it was originally supposed to have been a very small form of business and only licensed dealers were making any real profit by selling used items. The reason why it has been kept tax free in most countries for so long is also because of the recycling aspect involved in it. That become quite big in the 80s and the 90s. Now, with ebay and the like currently, some people are exploiting something that originally operated by entirely different means - flea markets, local paper ads etc. It worked on old-fashioned notions of "honor" and "decency", which might sound absurd today to most ears of course. But if someone tried to lead you off, it was your resposibility to inform other potential buyers about such individuals. These days we're just told to "ignore them", because apparantly it's their "personal business" etc.

But you know what? The only thing we can do at the moment is to keep complaining about it. In case you haven't noticed, publicly complaining about things does have an effect. It might not be the most effective strategy imaginable, but if it slows down the unhealthy progress and potentially introduces some changes later on then I'm all for it personally. If someone is asking 1000 dollars / euros for a SH-2000 on an internet forum that person should be rightfully criticized or even ridiculed. One of the reasons why these type of ads rile up people is also the pretentiousness and the lack of any decency as far as the content of those ads go - it's perfectly normal human behaviour to react to such things and you should react to such nonsense in one way or another. When you strongly disagree with someone on a forum, you will usually voice your opinion. Yet, for some oblivious reason when money is being involved, it's just "their personal business" and you're supposed to keep quiet about it.

Bottom line: if you want to generate considerable amounts of profit by selling used items, you should become a licensed dealer and pay some fucking taxes. It's not entirely okay just because it is still currently considered legal.


So much to argue with there, but let me raise one point - and it's the same point I've mentioned again, and again, and again.

If Minimoogs still sold for $400 and Jupiter-8s for $500, would anyone be making new analogue synthesizers? Would Tom Oberheim be selling his new SEM? Would Dave Smith bother with a Prophet'08? Would Moog Music even be in business as we understand it today? Of course not. Those high prices for used gear fuel the market for new instruments, just like $20,000 vintage Stratocasters keep the market for high quality new ones (at one fifth to one tenth the vintage price) viable.

I for one welcome high prices, since it fuels a market for less-than-stratospherically priced new instruments (which, paradoxically, can then potentially lower the price of vintage gear simply because there are newer, cheaper alternatives). I do agree that if someone makes a living buying and selling used gear they should declare it on their taxes but that goes for any hobby that turns into the basis for the bulk of someone's income. I don't care if it's vintage synths, baking cakes, knitting scarves, or carpentry.

Singling out people who try to make a profit and painting them as parasites and (your use of word) "assholes" is misguided. It has nothing to do with decency, it has to do with a buyer finding a seller and both of them agreeing to mutually acceptable terms. Who am I to criticize if someone wants to sell or pay $1,200 for a Juno-106? What if the price was $1,000? $700? $500? $200? At what point does the seller cease to be an "asshole", and who makes the determination wherein they descend into a state of assholery? Is it a binary yes/no thing, or can they be a 17% asshole for pricing 17% over an arbitrary non-asshole price? :lol:
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Hybrid88 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:14 am

This is an interesting topic, I think more than anything that It's just a bit sad from a moral decency aspect that people feel the need to get every last damn cent from something they own, remember the days when your mate heard of a guy selling a minimoog and you went to him and he gave it to you for a "fair" price 'cause he could see you'd get more use out of it than he did?

Well it seems those days are gone, I don't have a problem with the odd dickhead wanting more than they usually go for but when it becomes to be accepted as the norm rather than the exeption, it does get to be a bit much - quite sad that people like to behave in this way really :?

Also, these few people who do ask ridiculous amounts are only encouraged when somene actually is stupid enough to pay it, it then sets a new precedent for the next guy selling his Juno and he'll research the sold prices, and come to the conclusion that it's worth XXX amount of dollars and so it raises the prices right across the board - just look at JP8's nowadays for an example.
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Rangoon » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:15 am

nvbrkr wrote:What would make that the only rightful way to criticize him?


Because otherwise you (the critic) offer no alternative to someone who wants to buy an SH-2000...

nvbrkr wrote:In fact, I fail to see how that would count as a concrete act of criticism in the first place.


It's a "putting your money where your mouth is" type of criticism. Otherwise, your actions can be construed as an attempt to scare off other potential buyers so you can aquire that item (the SH-2000) from that seller for less money than the other buyers would have offered....
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Solderman » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:39 am

Hybrid88 wrote:JP8 in 2010 is simply not a viable musical instument for the majority of people because of the crazy collector fuelled prices

There are also other considerations, such as whether or not the unit is serviced and Midi'd. I'm not so sure the collectors are the prime motivation for the rising demand on this synth. Hype is likely to affect a working musician just as equally as some rich, talentless hack with an analog fetish. Based on my own experience with the JP8, the hype is rather excessive.
Is the tragedy that those with talent won't ever be able to afford them, or that whoever ends up with them will just let them sit on a shelf and collect dust?

Seems to me if you REALLY had an enterprising mind, and the demand for them really was that great, you'd buy vintage gear at whatever price you could get, and rent out the use of them in your own controlled environment. You likely would pay back the cost in a short time with the right marketing tactics. I'm thinking of something kind of like an arcade (but definitely not like a museum), except with full studio facilities.

"Lots of people are nostalgic for analogue. I suspect they're people who never had to work with it." - Brian Eno
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Hybrid88 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:55 am

Solderman wrote:...Is the tragedy that those with talent won't ever be able to afford them, or that whoever ends up with them will just let them sit on a shelf and collect dust?

Most definately both IMO, mind you I wouldn't exactly say "tragedy" there are worse things in life than an unused JP8. But still, the fact that they may be overated effectively means very little to anyone - even the few people who would admit it, as they still go for what they do and continue to rise, I'd say thats classic collector behaviour there. ;)
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Re: Ridiculous eBay 'Buy-it-now' and starting bids.

Postby Rangoon » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:59 am

Hybrid88 wrote:
Solderman wrote:...Is the tragedy that those with talent won't ever be able to afford them, or that whoever ends up with them will just let them sit on a shelf and collect dust?

Most definately both IMO, mind you I wouldn't exactly say "tragedy" there are worse things in life than an unused JP8. But still, the fact that they may be overated effectively means very little to anyone - even the few people who would admit it, as they still go for what they do and continue to rise, I'd say thats classic collector behaviour there. ;)


I don't think it's a tragedy for either case...because those with talent (such as the two of you) don't need a JP8, and those that have them and let them collect dust (the rich, "talentless" collectors such as myself) effectively reduce the supply of them which makes the value go up. So it works out for both the talented musicians and the talentless collectors...
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