(Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

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(Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby Rafu1210 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:07 am

Hi, I'm trying to recreate a sound on my (original) MS20 and I've got a couple of patching questions. For a special one off performance I'll be using 2 original MS20s live.

Problem #1
Basically I need the pitch and LPF to have an attack curve but not the volume.

I've got the EG1 controlling pitch via the EG1/EXT knob and the EG1 Attack time knob,

And I've got the EG2 controlling the LPF via the Cutoff frequency modulation "EG2/EXT" Knob, but I want to know if theres a way to have a filter envelope without the volume envelope.

Is there a patch bay setting so that the VCOs bypass EG2? Something along the lines of trigger out directly into the VCO or something...? ...although ideally i'd want a slow (volume) release on the note also.....

Or if there was a way to have both pitch and LPF patched to EG1, that should work as well.

Problem #2
The other thing that I'd like to be able to do is have the option of the pitch descending instead of ascending when its controlled by EG1 attack.... Is this do-able?

Hopefully this isn't too confusing! Thanks in advance
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:27 am

1) Use EG1 (no attack) to "initial gain" to get no attack on the VCA. Then use EG2 for the LPF; to use EG2 for pitch, you need an inverter (since EG2 only has an inverted output) which you then patch between the inverted EG2 out and the VCO pitch input. (Note that this output is bipolar.)

2) Use the inverted output of EG1 rather than the normal one, the attack setting will now be a "decay".

Separate mixers, mults, inverters and the like are really handy with an MS20. Even more so when you want to use two together...
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby Rafu1210 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:05 am

Thanks for the reply!

What sort of inverters are you referring to? Are these cheap/available on ebay?

On point 2, are you referring to an inverted output already on the patch bay or going through an external inverter? Where would this patch plug into?

Thanks heaps!
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:56 am

Well any inverters will work - I have some in my eurorack modular, but before I got that I had a mate build me a little box (to interface with an MS20 and an MS10) that does:

- Unity mixing 4>1 (with attenuation on the mix out) and with one inverted input
- Buffered multing 1>4 (with attenuation on the mult input) and with one inverted output

Can't think of many standalone (not modular, that is) boxes that would do this. The Moog CP251 would do the job and would definitely make sense with an MS20 or two in many other respects as well... Not too cheap though and for simple inverting you'd be wasting the whole mixer (but my own little DIY box is the same in that regard). Probably there are small semi-modular synths that have this on board too (thinking of MFB or Doepfer here)... Anyways, it would be easy to DIY if you have some soldering skills or know someone with some experience.

Regarding point 2), I'm referring to the inverted output that is already on the patch panel. It's below the normal output of EG1, between the trigger input of the S/H and the CV input of the VCA...
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:06 pm

BTW, you might be interested in this thread on Muffwiggler that discusses small selections of modules to complement the (mini) MS20... The original poster is more or less restricting the recommendations to the 32HP and 4 power sockets of a Doepfer Mini Case. Plenty of options in that regard.

Have a look at the Harvestman English Tear as well, that will be very helpful once it's out... And it would also do the inversion (attenuverters).

Cheers!
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby Rafu1210 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:54 pm

Ok great. So regarding point 2, the input that you're describing seems to be the S&H out...? Its between the trigger input of the S/H and the CV input of the VCA.... But the output directly below the normal output of the EG1 is marked "rev out" and linked by a line to the EG1 out, so that seems more likely?

Where do I patch this output to?
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:05 pm

This is the inverted EG1 output (above is the normal output of EG1, to the left is the trigger ("clock") input of the S/H (which is actually a T/H) and to the right is the CV input ("control") of the VCA, which is what I was describing before - you're confusing the signal and the CV inputs of the S/H and VCA):

Image

You said you wanted the pitch to descend, so you would patch it to the "Total" or "Freq" inputs of the VCOs in the top row (and attenuate the modulation with the respective knobs)...

Depending on how you'd want your VCF- and VCA-EG, you could also do it with the inverted out of EG2 and use its attack setting - the filter, VCA and whatever is controlled by that as well would then ascend while the pitch descends...

Off Topic
Looking forward to a lot of questions like these once the mini MS20 is out. :lol:
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby Rafu1210 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:37 am

Ok thanks for you're help so far, I think I've sort of got the sound I was trying to get... sort of, not perfect....


My next question is, is there a patch for a sustain pedal?
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:13 am

You're welcome dude!

Well yeah, you have to use work arounds on these synths to get sort of what you want... But once you know the patch panel thoroughly, that's also where a lot of fun and happy accidents happen.

Sustain pedal: not really, what you can do is use an active (!) expression pedal to control "initial gain" (=VCA level). If you just want to open the VCA and hold it there you can also use the modulation wheel to open the VCA (again via "initial gain").
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby Lackan110f » Tue May 14, 2013 8:54 pm

Borrowing the thread:

I've encountered another flaw in the MS20 design: The initial gain input always ADDS the input signal with the signal from EG2!

Example: I want to have a VCF quick decay but with a slow VCA attack on it. How do I patch this since EG1 doesn't have decay?

If I:
use EG1 for VCA in the "Initial gain" with slow attack
and EG2 for VCF with decay
= it produces no VCA attack since it adds the signals from EG1 and EG2 together.

And if I:
use inverted EG1 routed to the VCF in with slow attack (=decay)
and EG2 for VCA with decay
= it produces the right sound as long as a key is pressed, but when I release the key the VCF reverts.

This is the easiest sound to produce on any synth with two EGs, but since "Initial Gain" is ADDING signals I really don't figure this out. Help please! :)
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Wed May 15, 2013 7:14 am

No way around that I fear...
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby Lackan110f » Wed May 15, 2013 7:33 am

As I suspected then... This is in my opinion a really basic feature they have overseen. A major bummer.

Thanks for replying though. :)
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Re: (Original) Korg MS20 (x2) patching question.

Postby pflosi » Wed May 15, 2013 9:24 am

My pleasure!

Yeah, there are some strange quirks on the MS20 - the fact that initial gain doesn't override the internal connection is one of them. On the other hand, if you got two MS series synths, you can do what you want (I have MS10+20).
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