What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

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What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time reader in these forums. I am so greatful for the service that VSE provides.

I have a bit of a quandary on my hands that perhaps someone could help me with. Of my three principal machines, only one is an analog monosynth, and I am looking to add another. Currently, I own a Korg MS-20 mini. I would like to add a Moog to my arsenal, but am torn between buying a used LP or a new Sub Phatty. My concern stems from the following reasons:

1. Although the Sub Phatty's knobs and vintage design certainly make it attractive, its repuatation as Moog's "Gritty" offering makes me worry about the possibility of overlap between the MS-20 (imho the king of biting, gritty sounds) and the sub.

2. I am after that buttery Moog sound. Is this possible with the sub, or should this desire steer me to the LP?

Do y'all think that this is a valid concern? Price is not really as issue since a used LP and a New Sub are both going for roughly the same price (around $950 for a lightly used LP, a grand for a new Sub.)

Finally, given my interest in sound design, do you think that this should sway my decision, and if so, how?

Thanks to everyone in advance for your help. I look forward to contributing to this great community of synth lovers.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby Andy_X69 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:31 pm

I am not an expert with either Moog synth, but I'm tempted to suggest a used LP or a Slim Phatty (you don't really need a keyboard after all) if you really want a more "classic" Moog sound.

Also, the LP/Slim has a more flexible sound engine from what I know. It certainly is no slouch at basses and it does have a distortion offerring, even though it isn't the same one as the Sub Phatty has.

So the LP/Slim would probably be the best choice given what you're looking for.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:41 pm

Thanks so much for the reply!

And would you (or anyone else) say that the sound design-modulation capabilities of the Slim/LP will tickle my fancy? I do perform on occasion, but my love for synths is about the hours of tone tweaking.

Anyone have thoughts there?
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby CfNorENa » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:48 pm

Finally got some flight time with the Sub Phatty yesterday. I had about 40 minutes with it, in very good conditions: excellent headphones and an empty Guitar Center. In brief: I was very impressed with it, and think it is the best of the modern Moogs (in terms of basic tone). Together the suboscillator and multidrive give it an impressive weight and aggressive bite. To my ears, it sounds much more full, alive, organic (bla bla bla) than the Little/Slim Phatty. Take away the subosc and multidrive, and you can produce beautiful, liquid, smooth tones. In other words, it gives you the tools to make it dirty and aggressive, but it can be soft and warm, too.

I think it would make a very complementary synth to your MS-20 mini.

Edit: I also think the one-knob-per-function layout of the Sub Phatty (not taking into account the "under the hood" features) makes it much more suitable for sound design, esp. on the fly...
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby CfNorENa » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:51 pm

To the OP: you should also look into the Studio Electronics Boomstar 5089...
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:57 pm

Thanks for all the advice! Anyone else can feel free to weigh in.

I see myself spending alot of time on these boards :)
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby meatballfulton » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:03 pm

Tough choice! The SubPhatty actually has more features: noise, suboscillator, osc phase/detune locking... I can't think of anything off the top of my head that the LP can do that the Sub cannot.

BUT

25 note keyboard :oops:
Memory only holds 16 patches with no names, have to remember them by number :?
Knobs don't display current settings when calling up presets :(

My thoughts:

1. For home use where another (larger) MIDI keyboard is available to play it and you will be using the VST editor, get the Sub.

2. For live use I would get the LP mainly for the keyboard and patch recall.

Disclaimer: I have a Slim Phatty
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:09 pm

Yeah, patch memory is really not all that important to me. The basic patch storage of the Sub should do fine.

Hopefully this buy with sate my thirst for new synths until next tax season... when I plan to get a voyager ;)
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby Rick N Boogie » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:07 am

I own a Little Phatty Stage 2, and had a Stage 1 before it. I have also spent some time with the Sub Phatty. Both are classic Moog synths, and either would suit you fine, but imo, although the Sub has a better feeling keybed, and more knobs per function, overall, I would not trade my LP for a Sub. It may not matter to you, but the Little Phatty was Bob Moog's last synth that he had direct involvement with its design, and the Sub has none of Bob's mojo. Plenty of mojo, but you see what I'm saying.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:36 am

Thank you Rick. I knew that the LP was the last machine that Bob himself had input on. My only concern with the LP is that, since performance is a secondary consideration to sound design, the key count does not really matter. I have some great controllers that negate the key count concern.

Put succinctly, guys, can I get comparable modulation options on the LP to that I (obviously) can get on the sub? That is the crux of my question.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby Rick N Boogie » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:39 pm

Aside from the sub-oscillator on the Sub vs the arpeggiator on the Little, they otherwise have the same stuff- 2VCO's, 2 EG's, 1 LFO. Thus, more similar than dis-similar.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby GuyaGuy » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:05 pm

meatballfulton wrote:I can't think of anything off the top of my head that the LP can do that the Sub cannot.


ARPEGGIATOR!!! (Fairly basic but I really like the sound of arpeggiated Moogs.)

But otherwise...

Rick N Boogie wrote:Thus, more similar than dis-similar.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby Sir Nose » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:37 pm

Another difference is the LP/SP has OSC 2 as a mod source the SubP does not.

I own a stage 1 with CV out. I'd probably go with the SubP just for the knob per function and OSC reset. I'd have to spend a little time with it to make sure I like the tone > or = to the LP.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:50 pm

RE: Arpeggiator. Is it not fairly easy to arp with the Sub phatty through midi control? Also, I have the Auturia Minimoog app with an external controller that has an Arp. With a possible minibrute on the horizon as well, I would place arpeggiator low on my list of priorities.

User Interface and Functionality are my top two priorities, as I mull things over.
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Re: What to Buy: Moog Sub Phatty or Used LP?

Postby 3mbalmedDX7 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:20 pm

So I have decided to go for the Sub Phatty. After watching Marc Doty (the pope of Analog Synthesis as we all know) demo it, I am convinced that it suits my needs.

Thanks everyone for your help.
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